"An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.

This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.

Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
....
For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html

On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
>
> This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
>
> Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> ...
> For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
>
> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html

Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.

The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.

On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 6:39:24 AM UTC, dosai prata wrote:
> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> >
> > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> >
> > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > ...
> > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> >
> > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
>
> The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.

Remember the case of Malaysian Airlines MH17? Both sides denied responsibility. But bomb fragments, when collected and pieced together, revealed the truth.

On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> >
> > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> >
> > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > ...
> > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> >
> > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.

Satellite footage would help too.

> The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.

We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > >
> > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > ...
> > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > >
> > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> Satellite footage would help too.
> > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.

> We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.

1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
"Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).

The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-13-23/h_805763aafe5be9c0e4c72bdbb2d45453
Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?

2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > >
> > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > ...
> > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > >
> > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
>
> > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
>
> The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?

Israel gave notice. What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?

The whole thing sucks, btw. It is disingenuous to just blame one side.

> https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-13-23/h_805763aafe5be9c0e4c72bdbb2d45453
> Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
>
> 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.

Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.

Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > >
> > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > ...
> > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > >
> > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> >
> > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> >
> > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> Israel gave notice.

Yes, Israel gave notice.
1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."

>What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?

"On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/

Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?

>
> The whole thing sucks, btw. It is disingenuous to just blame one side.
> > https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-13-23/h_805763aafe5be9c0e4c72bdbb2d45453
> > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> >
> > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
>
> Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > >
> > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > >
> > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > Israel gave notice.
> Yes, Israel gave notice.
> 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.

That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.

> 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
>
> Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?

Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.

> > The whole thing sucks, btw. It is disingenuous to just blame one side.
> > > https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-13-23/h_805763aafe5be9c0e4c72bdbb2d45453
> > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > >
> > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> >
> > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital.. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > >
> > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > >
> > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > Israel gave notice.
> > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> >
> > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.

In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
originally from UN sources.
https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost..png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80

23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.

Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
Might makes right?

> > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > >
> > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > > >
> > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > >
> > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > >
> > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> originally from UN sources.
> https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
>
> 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
>
> Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> Might makes right?
> > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > >
> > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.

No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 2:17:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord.. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization..
> > > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > > >
> > > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> > In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> > originally from UN sources.
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
> >
> > 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
> >
> > Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> > Might makes right?
> > > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.
> No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.

Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY and prevent the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?

On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 9:31:20 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 2:17:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war.."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > > > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > > > >
> > > > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > > > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> > > In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> > > originally from UN sources.
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
> > >
> > > 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
> > >
> > > Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> > > Might makes right?
> > > > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.
> > No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.
> Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY and prevent the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?

Ridiculous. Giving notice makes it not indiscriminate. Both sides are to blame, but some people only blame one side. Denying the obvious.

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 10:25:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 9:31:20 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 2:17:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > > > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > > > > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > > > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > > > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > > > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > > > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > > > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > > > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > > > > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> > > > In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> > > > originally from UN sources.
> > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
> > > >
> > > > 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
> > > >
> > > > Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> > > > Might makes right?
> > > > > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.
> > > No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.
> > Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY and prevent the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?

> Ridiculous. Giving notice makes it not indiscriminate. Both sides are to blame, but some people only blame one side. Denying the obvious.

Giving notice does not makes it indiscriminate.
Nevertheless, the bombings do kill indiscriminately.
For example, CNN headline: "2,000 children killed in Gaza, aid group says, as tempers flare at UN amid ceasefire calls"

1. If you want to dispute the CNN figure, please tell the real figure.
2. If you think children and Hamas members are no mutually exclusive to what degree, please explain.
3. If 2000 children killed is not killing indiscriminately, what is your criteria?

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 5:49:40 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 10:25:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 9:31:20 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 2:17:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > > > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > > > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > > > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > > > > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > > > > > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > > > > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > > > > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > > > > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > > > > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > > > > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > > > > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > > > > > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> > > > > In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> > > > > originally from UN sources.
> > > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
> > > > >
> > > > > 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> > > > > Might makes right?
> > > > > > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > > > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.
> > > > No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.
> > > Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY and prevent the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?
>
> > Ridiculous. Giving notice makes it not indiscriminate. Both sides are to blame, but some people only blame one side. Denying the obvious.
> Giving notice does not makes it indiscriminate.
> Nevertheless, the bombings do kill indiscriminately.

But Israel gives notice. Hamas does not. It's ridiculously disingenuous to ignore that.

> For example, CNN headline: "2,000 children killed in Gaza, aid group says, as tempers flare at UN amid ceasefire calls"
>
> 1. If you want to dispute the CNN figure, please tell the real figure.
> 2. If you think children and Hamas members are no mutually exclusive to what degree, please explain.
> 3. If 2000 children killed is not killing indiscriminately, what is your criteria?

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:33:03 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 5:49:40 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 10:25:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 9:31:20 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 2:17:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > > > > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > > > > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > > > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > > > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > > > > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > > > > > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > > > > > > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > > > > > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > > > > > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > > > > > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > > > > > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > > > > > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > > > > > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > > > > > > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> > > > > > In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> > > > > > originally from UN sources.
> > > > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> > > > > > Might makes right?
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > > > > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.
> > > > > No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.
> > > > Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY and prevent the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?
> >
> > > Ridiculous. Giving notice makes it not indiscriminate. Both sides are to blame, but some people only blame one side. Denying the obvious.
> > Giving notice does not makes it indiscriminate.
> > Nevertheless, the bombings do kill indiscriminately.
> But Israel gives notice. Hamas does not. It's ridiculously disingenuous to ignore that.

Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY WITH PRIOR NOTICE and preventing the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?

> > For example, CNN headline: "2,000 children killed in Gaza, aid group says, as tempers flare at UN amid ceasefire calls"
> >
> > 1. If you want to dispute the CNN figure, please tell the real figure.
> > 2. If you think children and Hamas members are no mutually exclusive to what degree, please explain.
> > 3. If 2000 children killed is not killing indiscriminately, what is your criteria?

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 10:36:21 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:33:03 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 5:49:40 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 10:25:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 9:31:20 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 2:17:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked..
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > > > > > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > > > > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > > > > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > > > > > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > > > > > > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > > > > > > > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > > > > > > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > > > > > > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > > > > > > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > > > > > > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > > > > > > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > > > > > > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > > > > > > > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> > > > > > > In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> > > > > > > originally from UN sources.
> > > > > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> > > > > > > Might makes right?
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > > > > > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.
> > > > > > No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.
> > > > > Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY and prevent the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?
> > >
> > > > Ridiculous. Giving notice makes it not indiscriminate. Both sides are to blame, but some people only blame one side. Denying the obvious.
> > > Giving notice does not makes it indiscriminate.
> > > Nevertheless, the bombings do kill indiscriminately.
> > But Israel gives notice. Hamas does not. It's ridiculously disingenuous to ignore that.
> Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY WITH PRIOR NOTICE and preventing the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?
> > > For example, CNN headline: "2,000 children killed in Gaza, aid group says, as tempers flare at UN amid ceasefire calls"
> > >
> > > 1. If you want to dispute the CNN figure, please tell the real figure..
> > > 2. If you think children and Hamas members are no mutually exclusive to what degree, please explain.
> > > 3. If 2000 children killed is not killing indiscriminately, what is your criteria?

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:33:29 PM UTC-7, bmoore wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 10:36:21 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:33:03 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 5:49:40 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 10:25:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 9:31:20 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 2:17:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:07:31 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 1:49:38 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3:25:40 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:43:27 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:39:24 PM UTC-7, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 5:06:59 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "An explosive fell on the parking lot of a hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, killing a large number of Palestinians. Hamas attributed the blast to the Israeli military. Many news organizations and critics of Israel attributed the catastrophe to the Israeli military.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This presumption of Israeli responsibility was not unfounded. Israel had struck the hospital just days earlier, according to video footage obtained by the New York Times. The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization. And Israel had dropped more than 6,000 tons of bombs on the Gaza Strip since Hamas’s attack on October 7. The Israeli Defense Forces denied responsibility for the strike on the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, attributing it to a misfired rocket by the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. Yet Israel had attempted to frame Islamic Jihad for its own air strikes against civilians in the past.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, presenting Israel’s responsibility for the al-Ahli hospital as a proven fact was journalistically irresponsible. And this irresponsibility became more apparent on Wednesday, when new information cast doubt on early narratives about the attack. For example, there was a widespread sense Tuesday that the explosion had destroyed the hospital. This suggested that the blast was of a magnitude far larger than an Islamic Jihad rocket was capable of generating. In the light of Wednesday morning, however, a photo published by a Palestinian news source, and verified by the Times, indicated that the hospital was intact, as the explosion’s direct impact was concentrated on the parking lot. The crater left by the explosive appears quite small. U.S. intelligence claims that multiple strands of evidence indicate Islamic Jihad’s responsibility, including infrared satellite data. As of this writing, no independent news outlet has verified this conclusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For all these reasons, the case for an immediate ceasefire — and durable end to a mode of warfare that takes mass Palestinian death as its acceptable price — is strong. And the question of whether Israel was responsible for the calamity at al-Ahli Hospital has essentially no bearing on that case. There is simply no reason for advocates of the Palestinian cause to dig in on a factual debate about a single incident, rather than focusing on making their moral case against the present war."
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/the-undisputed-facts-in-gaza-are-enough.html
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why isn't anyone going after those bomb fragments? They will reveal whether the bomb is Israeli or Islamic Jihad.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Satellite footage would help too.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Israeli audio recording which supposedly was that of Islamic Jihad is moot as proof. With technology today, you can take a sample of a person's voice recording and use it to build a model of his vocal cord. This can then be used to synthesise anything you want the person to say.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > We've gotten to a point where anything can be faked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. "The Israeli military had ordered the evacuation of 22 hospitals in northern Gaza last week, according to the World Health Organization.
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known
> > > > > > > > > > > > as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said."
> > > > > > > > > > > > Is the above not evidence of Israeli intention to bomb indiscriminately, including hospitals?
> > > > > > > > > > > Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, Israel gave notice.
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Notices, in general, are given to create expectations.
> > > > > > > > > > 2. All other things equal, bombing one hospital would constitute more effective notice.
> > > > > > > > > That's what the terrorists did, and blamed Israel.
> > > > > > > > > > 3. Feel free to argue the following: "IF Israel is responsible, it is on Humanitarian ground."
> > > > > > > > > > >What notice did Hamas give before their gunmen slaughtered so many?
> > > > > > > > > > "On Saturday, after sixteen years of siege, Hamas militants broke out of Gaza.
> > > > > > > > > > More than 1,300 Israelis were subsequently killed with over one hundred more
> > > > > > > > > > taken hostage—some of them friends and family of signatories to this letter."
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/14/an-open-letter-from-participants-in-the-palestine-festival-of-literature/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Is Gaza, a city of 2 million people, not under seize for 16 years by Israeli force?
> > > > > > > > > Sounds like you need to do more research into why Gazan are not allowed to enter into Israel or Egypt.
> > > > > > > > In case you don't know how much Palestinians had been killed by Israeli force, here is the information
> > > > > > > > originally from UN sources.
> > > > > > > > https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INTERACTIVE-Human-cost.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 23 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why are Israeli allowed freely to get into Palestinian regions to kill Palestinians and not likewise blockaded?
> > > > > > > > Might makes right?
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Anyway, to intention to kill as many as possible is tested by which side is willing to pause.
> > > > > > > > > > > Israel wants to kill Hamas leaders.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hamas kills Israelis indiscriminately.
> > > > > > > No matter what Israel does, Hamas wants to kill all Jews.
> > > > > > Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY and prevent the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?
> > > >
> > > > > Ridiculous. Giving notice makes it not indiscriminate. Both sides are to blame, but some people only blame one side. Denying the obvious.
> > > > Giving notice does not makes it indiscriminate.
> > > > Nevertheless, the bombings do kill indiscriminately.
> > > But Israel gives notice. Hamas does not. It's ridiculously disingenuous to ignore that.
> > Does killing more Palestinians INDISCRIMINATELY WITH PRIOR NOTICE and preventing the Palestinians from having better lives stop their killing?
> > > > For example, CNN headline: "2,000 children killed in Gaza, aid group says, as tempers flare at UN amid ceasefire calls"
> > > >
> > > > 1. If you want to dispute the CNN figure, please tell the real figure.
> > > > 2. If you think children and Hamas members are no mutually exclusive to what degree, please explain.
> > > > 3. If 2000 children killed is not killing indiscriminately, what is your criteria?
> This is just playing with words now. Silly.