< eom >

On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:

> re: Is Albanese an English last name?

If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.

(I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>
> > re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>
> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>
> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>
Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

In article <20220530124115.1eeb5c4cf036f38867b28bd9@127.0.0.1>, admin@
127.0.0.1 says...
>
> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
> >
> > > re: Is Albanese an English last name?
> >
> > If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
> > Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
> > think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
> >
> > (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
> >
> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.

Scotland is/was known as Alba in Scottish Gaelic. Still is, to Alec
Salmond and his losers political party.

Janet

On 30 May 2022, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote

> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>
>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>
>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father
>> was Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent
>> that we think of Italian names as honorary English-language
>> names.
>>
>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his
>> ancestry.)
>>
> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to
> Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.
>
I'm familiar with some part of Scotland as "Alba" -- when was it
"Alban"?

--
Cheers, Harvey

On Mon, 30 May 2022 13:02:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:

>In article <20220530124115.1eeb5c4cf036f38867b28bd9@127.0.0.1>, admin@
>127.0.0.1 says...
>>
>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>> >
>> > > re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>> >
>> > If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>> > Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>> > think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>> >
>> > (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>> >
>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.
>
> Scotland is/was known as Alba in Scottish Gaelic. Still is, to Alec
>Salmond and his losers political party.

There's also a town in Italy called "Alba."

On 30/05/2022 14:02, Janet wrote:
> In article <20220530124115.1eeb5c4cf036f38867b28bd9@127.0.0.1>, admin@
> 127.0.0.1 says...
>>
>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>
>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>
>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>
>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>
>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.
>
> Scotland is/was known as Alba in Scottish Gaelic.

And Albion is an alternative name for Great Britain.

Still is, to Alec
> Salmond and his losers political party.
>
> Janet
>
>

On 2022-05-30 14:18:31 +0000, Ken Blake said:

> On Mon, 30 May 2022 13:02:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <20220530124115.1eeb5c4cf036f38867b28bd9@127.0.0.1>, admin@
>> 127.0.0.1 says...
>>>
>>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>>
>>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>>
>>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>>
>>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
>>> , and Scotland was know as Alban.

I seem to recall that there was some connectin between Albania and the
Caucasus, with an Albanian-speaking population in the Caucasus.
>>
>> Scotland is/was known as Alba in Scottish Gaelic. Still is, to
>> Alec>Salmond and his losers political party.
>
> There's also a town in Italy called "Alba."

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 11:59:32 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> In article <20220530124115.1eeb...@127.0.0.1>, admin@
> >> 127.0.0.1 says...

> >>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
> >>> , and Scotland was know as Alban.
>
> I seem to recall that there was some connectin between Albania and the
> Caucasus, with an Albanian-speaking population in the Caucasus.

No connection whatsoever between the Balkan Albanians and the Caucasian
Albanians. Whichever Romans named the two peoples thought they looked
white. The Indo-European languages of the Caucasus are Armenian and Ossetic.

On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 8:03:06 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> In article <20220530124115.1eeb...@127.0.0.1>, admin@
> 127.0.0.1 says...
> >
> > On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
> > Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
> > >
> > > > re: Is Albanese an English last name?
> > >
> > > If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
> > > Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
> > > think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
> > >
> > > (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
> > >
> > Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.
> Scotland is/was known as Alba in Scottish Gaelic. Still is, to Alec
> Salmond and his losers political party.

You? Still remember Alec Salmond?

Ken Blake hat am 30.05.2022 um 16:18 geschrieben:
> There's also a town in Italy called "Alba."

Yes, but people living there are called "albesi" and not "albanesi".

On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 3:08:00 PM UTC-4, Silvano wrote:
> Ken Blake hat am 30.05.2022 um 16:18 geschrieben:
> > There's also a town in Italy called "Alba."
> Yes, but people living there are called "albesi" and not "albanesi".

What are people who live in the alps called? Alpine?

On Mon, 30 May 2022 17:16:56 +0200
occam <nobody@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 30/05/2022 14:02, Janet wrote:
> > In article <20220530124115.1eeb5c4cf036f38867b28bd9@127.0.0.1>, admin@
> > 127.0.0.1 says...
> >>
> >> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
> >> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
> >>>
> >>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
> >>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
> >>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
> >>>
> >>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
> >>>
> >> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.
> >
> > Scotland is/was known as Alba in Scottish Gaelic.
>
>
> And Albion is an alternative name for Great Britain.
>

I wish I'd checked before being so definite now!

>
> Still is, to Alec
> > Salmond and his losers political party.
> >
> > Janet
> >
> >
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Mon, 30 May 2022 13:05:07 +0100
HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:

> On 30 May 2022, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote
>
> > On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
> > Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
> >>
> >>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
> >>
> >> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father
> >> was Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent
> >> that we think of Italian names as honorary English-language
> >> names.
> >>
> >> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his
> >> ancestry.)
> >>
> > Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to
> > Iberia) , and Scotland was know as Alban.
> >
> I'm familiar with some part of Scotland as "Alba" -- when was it
> "Alban"?
>
I was Wrong. I was probably thinking of Alba.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

* Kerr-Mudd, John:

> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>
>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>
>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>
>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>
> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)

Are you dreaming of being the king of the Two Galicias?

--
Bring home one dismembered body part, once, mind you, once,
and people get twitchy about checking your luggage ever after.
-- Vicereine Cordelia
in L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen

On 30-May-22 22:43, Quinn C wrote:
> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>
>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>
>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>
>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>
>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>
>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
>
> Are you dreaming of being the king of the Two Galicias?
>
I'm still trying to find the second half of the Two Sicilies.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 30/05/2022 23:19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 30-May-22 22:43, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>>
>>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>>
>>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>>
>>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>>
>>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
>>
>> Are you dreaming of being the king of the Two Galicias?
>>
> I'm still trying to find the second half of the Two Sicilies.
>
That easy. The Kingdom of Naples was officially known as The Kingdom of
Sicily. Add that to Sicily and there you are.

--
Ray
UK

In message <t734mc$4ni$1@gioia.aioe.org> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> Ken Blake hat am 30.05.2022 um 16:18 geschrieben:
>> There's also a town in Italy called "Alba."

> Yes, but people living there are called "albesi" and not "albanesi".

Until about 100 years ago (a bit less) there was not a single Italian
language, but rather dozens of different varieties, often quite
unintelligible between regions.

What a word in Italian is today has very little to do with what the word
may have been historically.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but why would anyone want to see Snow White and
the Seven Samurai?"

On 30-May-22 23:38, musika wrote:
> On 30/05/2022 23:19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 30-May-22 22:43, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>>>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>>>
>>>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>>>
>>>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
>>>
>>> Are you dreaming of being the king of the Two Galicias?
>>>
>> I'm still trying to find the second half of the Two Sicilies.
>>
> That easy. The Kingdom of Naples was officially known as The Kingdom of
> Sicily. Add that to Sicily and there you are.
>
But where do the Scilly Isles fit in?
It's all terribly confusing.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 29/05/2022 7:52 p.m., Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>
>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>
> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>
> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)

There are communities of Albanian origin in southern Italy who have been
there for several centuries. They seem to be known as Arbëreshë.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB_people

In message <PLdlK.19879$ntj.17317@fx15.iad> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 30-May-22 23:38, musika wrote:
>> On 30/05/2022 23:19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 30-May-22 22:43, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>>>>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>>>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>>>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
>>>>
>>>> Are you dreaming of being the king of the Two Galicias?
>>>>
>>> I'm still trying to find the second half of the Two Sicilies.
>>>
>> That easy. The Kingdom of Naples was officially known as The Kingdom of
>> Sicily. Add that to Sicily and there you are.
>>
> But where do the Scilly Isles fit in?

Those are a Silly place, nothing to do with Sicilian.

> It's all terribly confusing.

Sometimes spelling counts.

--
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute
to skydive twice.

* Sam Plusnet:

> On 30-May-22 23:38, musika wrote:
>> On 30/05/2022 23:19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 30-May-22 22:43, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>>>>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>>>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>>>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
>>>>
>>>> Are you dreaming of being the king of the Two Galicias?
>>>>
>>> I'm still trying to find the second half of the Two Sicilies.
>>>
>> That easy. The Kingdom of Naples was officially known as The Kingdom of
>> Sicily. Add that to Sicily and there you are.
>>
> But where do the Scilly Isles fit in?

No-eye deer.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On 29/05/22 17:52, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>
>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>
> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that
> we think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>
> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his
> ancestry.)

A detail I forgot to mention: anyone with the right to claim citizenship
of another country is ineligible to stand for Parliament. This has laid
low some candidates in the past. It turns out, though, that our PM is
not eligible to claim Italian citizenship, because his father is not
mentioned on his birth certificate.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 31/05/2022 01:59, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 30-May-22 23:38, musika wrote:
>> On 30/05/2022 23:19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 30-May-22 22:43, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 29 May 2022 17:52:11 +1000
>>>>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28/05/22 02:17, bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> re: Is Albanese an English last name?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're referring to the Australian Prime Minister, his father was
>>>>>> Italian. But there are so many Australians of Italian descent that we
>>>>>> think of Italian names as honorary English-language names.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I assume that there was some Albanian further back in his ancestry.)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Funny term Albania; there used to be a Caucasian one, (next to Iberia)
>>>>
>>>> Are you dreaming of being the king of the Two Galicias?
>>>>
>>> I'm still trying to find the second half of the Two Sicilies.
>>>
>> That easy. The Kingdom of Naples was officially known as The Kingdom
>> of Sicily. Add that to Sicily and there you are.
>>
> But where do the Scilly Isles fit in?
> It's all terribly confusing.
>
Only if you're Scilly.

--
Ray
UK

Lewis hat am 31.05.2022 um 00:57 geschrieben:
> In message <t734mc$4ni$1@gioia.aioe.org> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>> Ken Blake hat am 30.05.2022 um 16:18 geschrieben:
>>> There's also a town in Italy called "Alba."
>
>> Yes, but people living there are called "albesi" and not "albanesi".
>
> Until about 100 years ago (a bit less) there was not a single Italian
> language, but rather dozens of different varieties, often quite
> unintelligible between regions.

Right and wrong. Already Dante Alighieri had little problems
understanding the courts of the other towns and principates where he had
to seek refuge after he was exiled from Florence. But you're right in
the sense that Italian was mainly a language used in literature, by
notaries and lawmakers, while most people spoke only their dialect and
the difference between e.g. Venetian and Sicilian is indeed
considerable. Just for the record, if a Londoner had any reason to
travel to Cornwall or Northumberland in 1400 or 1600, how much did they
understand one another?

> What a word in Italian is today has very little to do with what the word
> may have been historically.

BS. On the contrary, Italian is an extremely conservative language.
Please read The Canterbury Tales as Chaucer wrote them and tell us how
much you can understand. Then take note that the author of the Divine
Comedy had been dead for over 60 years when Chaucer began writing that
book, but we can and do read parts of the Divine Comedy in Italian schools.

Here a couple of lines from the relevant Wikipedia article:
'Wepyng and waylyng, care and oother sorwe
I knowe ynogh, on even and a-morwe,'
Quod the Marchant, 'and so doon oother mo
That wedded been.