Ot Gorbachov said "If I did not trust George Bush and Helmut Kohl" the
Soviet withdrawal from eastern Europe would not have happened, and he
said it might have ended in war. (Maybe that means if he trusted them
enough to start the withdrawal and then the other two backed out (of
what, I don't know. I don't know what Gorby needed to trust the us or
germany about.)

From an interview on C-apsn radio now, but I don't know who is talking.
It's mostlhy about Bush.

And of course I can't help relating it to the previous 4 years. Any
foreign head of state or other person that trusted trump would have been
a fool, The promises he made to get treaties with Israel, to give the
newest fighters to the UAE, and to recognize Moroccan rule over Spanish
Sahara, I suspect he never intended to keep, but I'm not sure Morocco
and the UAE were actually relying on those things. They might have been
figleafs to cover up their making treaties with Israel, which they might
have wanted anyhow. And if trump didn't keep them, they miight have had
chits that could be traded in for something smaller.

I dont' know of any other agreements or treaties he was involved in.

Mark Green moderator.

On Sun, 07 Nov 2021 00:18:05 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>Ot Gorbachov said "If I did not trust George Bush and Helmut Kohl" the
>Soviet withdrawal from eastern Europe would not have happened, and he
>said it might have ended in war. (Maybe that means if he trusted them
>enough to start the withdrawal and then the other two backed out (of
>what, I don't know. I don't know what Gorby needed to trust the us or
>germany about.)
>
>From an interview on C-apsn radio now, but I don't know who is talking.
>It's mostlhy about Bush.
>
>And of course I can't help relating it to the previous 4 years. Any
>foreign head of state or other person that trusted trump would have been
>a fool, The promises he made to get treaties with Israel, to give the
>newest fighters to the UAE, and to recognize Moroccan rule over Spanish
>Sahara, I suspect he never intended to keep, but I'm not sure Morocco
>and the UAE were actually relying on those things. They might have been
>figleafs to cover up their making treaties with Israel, which they might
>have wanted anyhow. And if trump didn't keep them, they miight have had
>chits that could be traded in for something smaller.
>
>I dont' know of any other agreements or treaties he was involved in.
>
>Mark Green moderator.
Trump was in the bag for Netanyahu and did not do the US or the rest
of the world any favors with the things he did in Israel.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 07 Nov 2021 01:06:54 -0400,
gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Nov 2021 00:18:05 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Ot Gorbachov said "If I did not trust George Bush and Helmut Kohl" the
>>Soviet withdrawal from eastern Europe would not have happened, and he
>>said it might have ended in war. (Maybe that means if he trusted them
>>enough to start the withdrawal and then the other two backed out (of
>>what, I don't know. I don't know what Gorby needed to trust the us or
>>germany about.)
>>
>>From an interview on C-apsn radio now, but I don't know who is talking.
>>It's mostlhy about Bush.
>>
>>And of course I can't help relating it to the previous 4 years. Any
>>foreign head of state or other person that trusted trump would have been
>>a fool, The promises he made to get treaties with Israel, to give the
>>newest fighters to the UAE, and to recognize Moroccan rule over Spanish
>>Sahara, I suspect he never intended to keep, but I'm not sure Morocco
>>and the UAE were actually relying on those things. They might have been
>>figleafs to cover up their making treaties with Israel, which they might
>>have wanted anyhow. And if trump didn't keep them, they miight have had
>>chits that could be traded in for something smaller.
>>
>>I dont' know of any other agreements or treaties he was involved in.
>>
>>Mark Green moderator.
>Trump was in the bag for Netanyahu

In the bag? What do you mean by that? It sounds like slander of both
of them. And it's hard to slander trump. Trump like Netanyahu because
he thought of him as a tough guy, like he also regarded Putin, the head
of N. KOrea, and iirc Duterte of the philipines. Probably others I've
forgotten.

> and did not do the US or the rest
>of the world any favors with the things he did in Israel.

Except for the two things I mentioned, Spanish Sahara and the fighter
planes, which have not had any practical effect yet and the planes have
not yet even been delivered, you're full of baloney again. You're
implying the two agreements did the US or the world some harm, and they
didn't, and they did do the US and world some good. Treaties are a good
thing. Althhough treaties can be broken, business, tourism, and social
ties that develop along with diplmatic relations make that progressively
more unlikely.

On Sun, 07 Nov 2021 03:52:31 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 07 Nov 2021 01:06:54 -0400,
>gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 07 Nov 2021 00:18:05 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Ot Gorbachov said "If I did not trust George Bush and Helmut Kohl" the
>>>Soviet withdrawal from eastern Europe would not have happened, and he
>>>said it might have ended in war. (Maybe that means if he trusted them
>>>enough to start the withdrawal and then the other two backed out (of
>>>what, I don't know. I don't know what Gorby needed to trust the us or
>>>germany about.)
>>>
>>>From an interview on C-apsn radio now, but I don't know who is talking.
>>>It's mostlhy about Bush.
>>>
>>>And of course I can't help relating it to the previous 4 years. Any
>>>foreign head of state or other person that trusted trump would have been
>>>a fool, The promises he made to get treaties with Israel, to give the
>>>newest fighters to the UAE, and to recognize Moroccan rule over Spanish
>>>Sahara, I suspect he never intended to keep, but I'm not sure Morocco
>>>and the UAE were actually relying on those things. They might have been
>>>figleafs to cover up their making treaties with Israel, which they might
>>>have wanted anyhow. And if trump didn't keep them, they miight have had
>>>chits that could be traded in for something smaller.
>>>
>>>I dont' know of any other agreements or treaties he was involved in.
>>>
>>>Mark Green moderator.
>>Trump was in the bag for Netanyahu
>
>In the bag? What do you mean by that? It sounds like slander of both
>of them. And it's hard to slander trump. Trump like Netanyahu because
>he thought of him as a tough guy, like he also regarded Putin, the head
>of N. KOrea, and iirc Duterte of the philipines. Probably others I've
>forgotten.

Trump liked Netanyahu because Kushner told him to. Bibi and Kushner
were very close with Kushner staying at his home on visits there. It
was no accident that Kushner was chosen to be the Trump
administration's man in Israel. I think we all agree Trump was not a
deep thinker and he trusted his SIL.

>
>> and did not do the US or the rest
>>of the world any favors with the things he did in Israel.
>
>Except for the two things I mentioned, Spanish Sahara and the fighter
>planes, which have not had any practical effect yet and the planes have
>not yet even been delivered, you're full of baloney again. You're
>implying the two agreements did the US or the world some harm, and they
>didn't, and they did do the US and world some good. Treaties are a good
>thing. Althhough treaties can be broken, business, tourism, and social
>ties that develop along with diplmatic relations make that progressively
>more unlikely.

The US (Trump) supported further developments on the west bank in
spite of most of the world condemning it. Making a deal with UAE is
more window dressing than anything else. They were never combatants
anyway. If he had made a deal with the Palestinians, Iran or Saudi
Arabia it might mean something. His actions only drove that wedge in
deeper.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 07 Nov 2021 10:34:46 -0500,
gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>
>The US (Trump) supported further developments on the west bank in
>spite of most of the world condemning it.

You are on a different subject now. . The topic was whether a foreign
leader would trust trump like Gorbachov trusted Bush and Kohl.

> Making a deal with UAE is
>more window dressing than anything else.

Baloney. This is just your usual nonsense cynicism. It's establishing
diplomatic relations.

> They were never combatants

So what? There are 200 countries and the average country has never been
at war with more than 10 of them. That doesn't mean establishing
relations with one of the other 190 has been unwilling to do so is
nothing.

With the UAE they've also had tourist flights, spending money, new
restaurants designed to appeal to Israelis.

That's why it shouldn't be called a peace treaty, and I didnt' call it
that.

>anyway. If he had made a deal with the Palestinians, Iran or Saudi
>Arabia it might mean something. His actions only drove that wedge in
>deeper.

No it didn't do that all.

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 10:34:46 AM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Nov 2021 03:52:31 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 07 Nov 2021 01:06:54 -0400,
> >gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 07 Nov 2021 00:18:05 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>Ot Gorbachov said "If I did not trust George Bush and Helmut Kohl" the
> >>>Soviet withdrawal from eastern Europe would not have happened, and he
> >>>said it might have ended in war. (Maybe that means if he trusted them
> >>>enough to start the withdrawal and then the other two backed out (of
> >>>what, I don't know. I don't know what Gorby needed to trust the us or
> >>>germany about.)
> >>>
> >>>From an interview on C-apsn radio now, but I don't know who is talking.
> >>>It's mostlhy about Bush.
> >>>
> >>>And of course I can't help relating it to the previous 4 years. Any
> >>>foreign head of state or other person that trusted trump would have been
> >>>a fool, The promises he made to get treaties with Israel, to give the
> >>>newest fighters to the UAE, and to recognize Moroccan rule over Spanish
> >>>Sahara, I suspect he never intended to keep, but I'm not sure Morocco
> >>>and the UAE were actually relying on those things. They might have been
> >>>figleafs to cover up their making treaties with Israel, which they might
> >>>have wanted anyhow. And if trump didn't keep them, they miight have had
> >>>chits that could be traded in for something smaller.
> >>>
> >>>I dont' know of any other agreements or treaties he was involved in.
> >>>
> >>>Mark Green moderator.
> >>Trump was in the bag for Netanyahu
> >
> >In the bag? What do you mean by that? It sounds like slander of both
> >of them. And it's hard to slander trump. Trump like Netanyahu because
> >he thought of him as a tough guy, like he also regarded Putin, the head
> >of N. KOrea, and iirc Duterte of the philipines. Probably others I've
> >forgotten.
> Trump liked Netanyahu because Kushner told him to.

You really think anyone ever told Trump what to do in the last
50 years?

Bibi and Kushner
> were very close with Kushner staying at his home on visits there. It
> was no accident that Kushner was chosen to be the Trump
> administration's man in Israel. I think we all agree Trump was not a
> deep thinker and he trusted his SIL.

You have a point there. Trump could have succumbed to Jared's BS.
But Trump was already on that train, remember his proposed ban on
all Muslims entering the US? That was another key moment when it
was obvious Trump was not fit to be president. Given that, his
favoritism to Israel is no surprise.

> >
> >> and did not do the US or the rest
> >>of the world any favors with the things he did in Israel.
> >
> >Except for the two things I mentioned, Spanish Sahara and the fighter
> >planes, which have not had any practical effect yet and the planes have
> >not yet even been delivered, you're full of baloney again. You're
> >implying the two agreements did the US or the world some harm, and they
> >didn't, and they did do the US and world some good. Treaties are a good
> >thing. Althhough treaties can be broken, business, tourism, and social
> >ties that develop along with diplmatic relations make that progressively
> >more unlikely.
> The US (Trump) supported further developments on the west bank in
> spite of most of the world condemning it. Making a deal with UAE is
> more window dressing than anything else. They were never combatants
> anyway. If he had made a deal with the Palestinians, Iran or Saudi
> Arabia it might mean something. His actions only drove that wedge in
> deeper.

I agree. Israel sticking a finger in the eyes of the Palestinians with those
unnecessary new settlements is only making things worse and harder to solve.
And the UAE make nice is like you say, already forgotten. I'm sure Israel
isn't too confident in old sleepy Joe either.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Nov 2021 05:48:52 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>
>And the UAE make nice is like you say, already forgotten.

It's forgotten in the US because it's not news in the US anymore.

> I'm sure Israel
>isn't too confident in old sleepy Joe either.

It's not because he's sleepy, which you should know by now he's not.

It's that his policies are not as favorable to the views of a little
more than half of the Israelis as trump's were.

And it's not about confidence. It's knowing what his policies are and
he has not kept most of them a secret.