On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
<a227206e895301ff8adf92585e06e86b@example.com> wrote:

>I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?

They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.

On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
foot through the ceiling. :-)

On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 2:44:31 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
>
> >I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>
> On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> foot through the ceiling. :-)

Agree. And whatever size and number there are already should be fine, unless
there is a problem with heating or cooling that room. Unless you're going to
run more ducting to another location, you're pretty much limited to what's there
anyway.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 12:09:03 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 2:44:31 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
>> <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>> They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
>> not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>>
>> On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
>> foot through the ceiling. :-)
>
>Agree. And whatever size and number there are already should be fine, unless
>there is a problem with heating or cooling that room. Unless you're going to
>run more ducting to another location, you're pretty much limited to what's there
>anyway.

Back in the olden days HVAC guys had a round slide rule type duct
calculator that would solve for duct sizes based on the machine you
had, desired CFM and operating pressure. It would spec round square or
rectangular ducts.
I am guessing it is on their phone now.

On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> <a227206e895301ff8adf92585e06e86b@example.com> wrote:
>
>> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>
> They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>
> On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> foot through the ceiling. :-)
>

They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
standing lamp bases, etc.

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 09:17:51 -0400, Retirednoguilt
<HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

>On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
>> <a227206e895301ff8adf92585e06e86b@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>>
>> They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
>> not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>>
>> On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
>> foot through the ceiling. :-)
>>
>
>They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
>obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
>standing lamp bases, etc.
in our 3 level house (2 story with finished basement) - about 600
square foot footprint - there is one6X32' return on each of the 2 main
floors and a roughly 8x12 in the basement. The main floor returns ore
at the bottom of the interior wall, and the basement one is in the
ceiling afjacentto the interior wall. The staircases are all open -no
door to the basement. They appear to be adequate for both heating and
cooling - although not optimized for either.

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> >
> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> >
> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> >
> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> standing lamp bases, etc.

As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
I think.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
<angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
>> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
>> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>> >
>> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
>> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>> >
>> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
>> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
>> >
>> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
>> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
>> standing lamp bases, etc.
>
>As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
>to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
>I think.
>
>Cindy Hamilton
Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
"hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
frosting/condensing/fogging

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> >> >
> >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> >> >
> >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> >> >
> >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> >> standing lamp bases, etc.
> >
> >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
> >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
> >I think.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
> Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
> "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
> frosting/condensing/fogging

Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.

I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
The garage has a couple of them, still.

In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.

The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
work was downright sketchy.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> > >> >
> > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> > >> >
> > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> > >> >
> > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
> > >
> > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
> > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
> > >I think.
> > >
> > >Cindy Hamilton
> > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
> > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
> > frosting/condensing/fogging
> Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
> return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
> This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
> under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
>
> I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
> The garage has a couple of them, still.
>
> In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window.. But
> the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
> the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
> a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
>
> The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
> work was downright sketchy.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
It would save on energy.

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
> It would save on energy.

Radiators are usually under windows, but that might be mostly because of it being easier to run pipes.

If some of the perception of being cold comes from radiative heat loss to the cold wall, then putting vents near the walls might let you set the thermostat lower and still feel warm.

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> > > >> >
> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
> > > >
> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
> > > >I think.
> > > >
> > > >Cindy Hamilton
> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
> >
> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
> >
> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
> >
> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
> > work was downright sketchy.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
> It would save on energy.

The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.

There are no returns directly under windows.

There are 3 output registers directly under windows, but most are not. Of the 3,
one is in the kitchen. There really was no other place to put it due to lack of open
wall space. Another is under a picture window which takes up most of the wall so,
again, not much of a choice. The third one is under a window in the addition on the
back of the house, but it's also in about the only place it could go based on the
layout of the room.

What I'm saying is that it does not appear that the builder followed any "register
placement standard". The house stays comfortable, so I'm OK with that.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
<comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
>> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
>> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
>> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
>> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
>> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
>> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
>> > > >
>> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
>> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
>> > > >I think.
>> > > >
>> > > >Cindy Hamilton
>> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
>> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
>> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
>> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
>> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
>> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
>> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
>> >
>> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
>> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
>> >
>> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
>> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
>> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
>> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
>> >
>> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
>> > work was downright sketchy.
>> >
>> > Cindy Hamilton
>> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
>> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
>> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
>> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
>> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
>> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
>> It would save on energy.
>
>The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
>between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
>
>There are no returns directly under windows.
>
>There are 3 output registers directly under windows, but most are not. Of the 3,
>one is in the kitchen. There really was no other place to put it due to lack of open
>wall space. Another is under a picture window which takes up most of the wall so,
>again, not much of a choice. The third one is under a window in the addition on the
>back of the house, but it's also in about the only place it could go based on the
>layout of the room.
>
>What I'm saying is that it does not appear that the builder followed any "register
>placement standard". The house stays comfortable, so I'm OK with that.

Picture windows - in my experience - have 2 heat registers.
I've owned 2 forced air homes - late '50s and early '90s
and every above-ground heat register was under a window -
except - bathroom and entrance-way.
John T.

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:20:59 PM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
> <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> >> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> >> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> >> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> >> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> >> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> >> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> >> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
> >> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
> >> > > >I think.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Cindy Hamilton
> >> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
> >> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
> >> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
> >> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
> >> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
> >> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
> >> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
> >> >
> >> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
> >> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
> >> >
> >> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
> >> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
> >> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
> >> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
> >> >
> >> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
> >> > work was downright sketchy.
> >> >
> >> > Cindy Hamilton
> >> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
> >> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
> >> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
> >> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
> >> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
> >> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
> >> It would save on energy.
> >
> >The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
> >between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
> >
> >There are no returns directly under windows.
> >
> >There are 3 output registers directly under windows, but most are not. Of the 3,
> >one is in the kitchen. There really was no other place to put it due to lack of open
> >wall space. Another is under a picture window which takes up most of the wall so,
> >again, not much of a choice. The third one is under a window in the addition on the
> >back of the house, but it's also in about the only place it could go based on the
> >layout of the room.
> >
> >What I'm saying is that it does not appear that the builder followed any "register
> >placement standard". The house stays comfortable, so I'm OK with that.
> Picture windows - in my experience - have 2 heat registers.

The *room* has 2 heat registers. One on the south wall under the window and one
on the east (outside) wall.

The north (interior) wall has 2 returns.

> I've owned 2 forced air homes - late '50s and early '90s
> and every above-ground heat register was under a window -
> except - bathroom and entrance-way.
> John T.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 17:22:16 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
><comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>>> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>>> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
>>> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
>>> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
>>> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
>>> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
>>> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
>>> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
>>> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
>>> > > >I think.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Cindy Hamilton
>>> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
>>> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
>>> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
>>> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
>>> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
>>> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
>>> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
>>> >
>>> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
>>> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
>>> >
>>> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
>>> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
>>> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
>>> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
>>> >
>>> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
>>> > work was downright sketchy.
>>> >
>>> > Cindy Hamilton
>>> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
>>> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
>>> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
>>> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
>>> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
>>> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
>>> It would save on energy.

Much better comfort with the heaton the outside walls -and also much
more efficientway to keep the house comfortable. - particularly with
constant low speed air circulation.
>>
>>The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
>>between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
>>
>>There are no returns directly under windows.

Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
>>
>>There are 3 output registers directly under windows, but most are not. Of the 3,
>>one is in the kitchen. There really was no other place to put it due to lack of open
>>wall space. Another is under a picture window which takes up most of the wall so,
>>again, not much of a choice. The third one is under a window in the addition on the
>>back of the house, but it's also in about the only place it could go based on the
>>layout of the room.
>>
>>What I'm saying is that it does not appear that the builder followed any "register
>>placement standard". The house stays comfortable, so I'm OK with that.
>
>
>Picture windows - in my experience - have 2 heat registers.
>I've owned 2 forced air homes - late '50s and early '90s
>and every above-ground heat register was under a window -
> except - bathroom and entrance-way.
> John T.

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:12 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 17:22:16 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
> ><comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo..com wrote:
> >>> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >>> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> >>> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> >>> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >>> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> >>> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> >>> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> >>> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> >>> > > >> >
> >>> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> >>> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> >>> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
> >>> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
> >>> > > >I think.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >Cindy Hamilton
> >>> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
> >>> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
> >>> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
> >>> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
> >>> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
> >>> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
> >>> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
> >>> >
> >>> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
> >>> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
> >>> >
> >>> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
> >>> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
> >>> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
> >>> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
> >>> >
> >>> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
> >>> > work was downright sketchy.
> >>> >
> >>> > Cindy Hamilton
> >>> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
> >>> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
> >>> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
> >>> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
> >>> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
> >>> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
> >>> It would save on energy.
> Much better comfort with the heaton the outside walls -and also much
> more efficientway to keep the house comfortable. - particularly with
> constant low speed air circulation.
> >>
> >>The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
> >>between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
> >>
> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.

Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
gravity furnaces.

In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
walls.

Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
through those bays, but never got around to it.

Cindy Hamilton

..
>> >>
>> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
>> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
>
>Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
>gravity furnaces.
>In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
>that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
>walls.
>Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
>sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
>through those bays, but never got around to it.
>Cindy Hamilton

You're in Michigan ? with uninsulated walls ?
John T.

On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 5:46:07 AM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
> .
> >> >>
> >> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
> >> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
> >
> >Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
> >gravity furnaces.
> >In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
> >that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
> >walls.
> >Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
> >sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
> >through those bays, but never got around to it.
> >Cindy Hamilton
> You're in Michigan ? with uninsulated walls ?
> John T.

Concrete block veneered on the outside with split fieldstone (R1 at best). On the
inside, 1/4 inch furring strips with vintage 1947 drywall nailed up. Skim coated
with plaster. It would be a giant pain to take down the drywall, fur out the walls with
2x4 or 2.6, re-wire, insulate, drywall, and paint. When we remodeled the bathroom,
we did insulate the exterior wall.

Our heating costs are surprisingly low, probably because the attic has more
than 1 foot of blown-in insulation. And the house is only 1200 square feet
or so. I'll admit if you're not wearing sleeves in the winter, the arm on the side
facing the exterior wall is a little chilly as your body heat radiates outward toward
that cold wall.

Cindy Hamilton

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT),
"angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 5:46:07 AM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>> .
>> >> >>
>> >> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
>> >> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
>> >
>> >Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
>> >gravity furnaces.
>> >In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
>> >that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
>> >walls.
>> >Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
>> >sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
>> >through those bays, but never got around to it.
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>> You're in Michigan ? with uninsulated walls ?
>> John T.
>
>Concrete block veneered on the outside with split fieldstone (R1 at best). On the
>inside, 1/4 inch furring strips with vintage 1947 drywall nailed up. Skim coated
>with plaster. It would be a giant pain to take down the drywall, fur out the walls with
>2x4 or 2.6, re-wire, insulate, drywall, and paint. When we remodeled the bathroom,
>we did insulate the exterior wall.
>
>Our heating costs are surprisingly low, probably because the attic has more
>than 1 foot of blown-in insulation. And the house is only 1200 square feet
>or so. I'll admit if you're not wearing sleeves in the winter, the arm on the side
>facing the exterior wall is a little chilly as your body heat radiates outward toward
>that cold wall.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

I've always thought, Whenever one is cold, he's losing weight. And for
most of us that's a good thing.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:39:04 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
<angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:12 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 17:22:16 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
>> ><comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>> >>> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> >>> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> >>> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
>> >>> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
>> >>> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
>> >>> > > >> >
>> >>> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>> >>> > > >> >
>> >>> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
>> >>> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>> >>> > > >> >
>> >>> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
>> >>> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
>> >>> > > >> >
>> >>> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
>> >>> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
>> >>> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
>> >>> > > >
>> >>> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
>> >>> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
>> >>> > > >I think.
>> >>> > > >
>> >>> > > >Cindy Hamilton
>> >>> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
>> >>> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
>> >>> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
>> >>> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
>> >>> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
>> >>> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
>> >>> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
>> >>> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
>> >>> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
>> >>> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
>> >>> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
>> >>> > work was downright sketchy.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Cindy Hamilton
>> >>> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
>> >>> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
>> >>> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
>> >>> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
>> >>> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
>> >>> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
>> >>> It would save on energy.
>> Much better comfort with the heaton the outside walls -and also much
>> more efficientway to keep the house comfortable. - particularly with
>> constant low speed air circulation.
>> >>
>> >>The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
>> >>between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
>> >>
>> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
>> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
>
>Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
>gravity furnaces.
>
>In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
>that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
>walls.
>
>Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
>sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
>through those bays, but never got around to it.
>
>Cindy Hamilton
"gravity furnaces" work by convection. Warm air enters the room at a
"warm "wall and rizes to the ceiling where it cools and falls down the
"cole" wall. Putting heat up the cold wall causes the air to cool and
drop without circulating. Most "octopus" or "gravity" furnaces
discharged heat close to the center of the house with the cold air
returns nearthe floor in outside walls or in the floor near the
outside walls - often under winfows causing the still warm-ish air to
cause a "curtain effect" at the window, drawing the cold draft into
the cold air return. This is why when gravity furnaces were replaced
with forced air units the total ducting had to be re-done - with some
installers simply reversing the air flow - making the returns the heat
outlets and the outlets the returns.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 05:47:25 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>.
>>> >>
>>> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
>>> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
>>
>>Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
>>gravity furnaces.
>>In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
>>that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
>>walls.
>>Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
>>sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
>>through those bays, but never got around to it.
>>Cindy Hamilton
>
>
> You're in Michigan ? with uninsulated walls ?
> John T.
My brother's house in Kitchener is solid double brick with lathe and
plaster interior - no stufs on the outer walls - and only about half
an inch to an inch of "dead air space" as insulation. He has injected
foam into most of the walls - not a complete fillbut enough to reduce
convectgion loss in the airspace - which HAS helped a LOT.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
<angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 5:46:07 AM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>> .
>> >> >>
>> >> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
>> >> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
>> >
>> >Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
>> >gravity furnaces.
>> >In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
>> >that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
>> >walls.
>> >Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
>> >sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
>> >through those bays, but never got around to it.
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>> You're in Michigan ? with uninsulated walls ?
>> John T.
>
>Concrete block veneered on the outside with split fieldstone (R1 at best). On the
>inside, 1/4 inch furring strips with vintage 1947 drywall nailed up. Skim coated
>with plaster. It would be a giant pain to take down the drywall, fur out the walls with
>2x4 or 2.6, re-wire, insulate, drywall, and paint. When we remodeled the bathroom,
>we did insulate the exterior wall.
>
>Our heating costs are surprisingly low, probably because the attic has more
>than 1 foot of blown-in insulation. And the house is only 1200 square feet
>or so. I'll admit if you're not wearing sleeves in the winter, the arm on the side
>facing the exterior wall is a little chilly as your body heat radiates outward toward
>that cold wall.
>
>Cindy Hamilton
Many of those buildings had "block fill" insulation inthe block
cavities (often vermiculite) - otherwize the "dead air" in the
cavities acted as a low value insulation. If fly-ash was used as the
aggregate for the block(cinder block) the thermal conductivity of the
blockis a lot lower than if granular stone was used.

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 3:49:08 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:39:04 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:12 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 17:22:16 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
> >> ><comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> >> >>> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >>> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >> >>> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> >> >>> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> >> >>> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >> >>> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> >> >>> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >>> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >>> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> >> >>> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >>> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> >> >>> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >>> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> >> >>> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> >> >>> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
> >> >>> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
> >> >>> > > >I think.
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >Cindy Hamilton
> >> >>> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
> >> >>> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
> >> >>> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
> >> >>> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
> >> >>> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
> >> >>> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
> >> >>> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
> >> >>> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
> >> >>> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
> >> >>> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
> >> >>> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
> >> >>> > work was downright sketchy.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Cindy Hamilton
> >> >>> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
> >> >>> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
> >> >>> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
> >> >>> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
> >> >>> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
> >> >>> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
> >> >>> It would save on energy.
> >> Much better comfort with the heaton the outside walls -and also much
> >> more efficientway to keep the house comfortable. - particularly with
> >> constant low speed air circulation.
> >> >>
> >> >>The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
> >> >>between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
> >> >>
> >> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
> >> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
> >
> >Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
> >gravity furnaces.
> >
> >In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
> >that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
> >walls.
> >
> >Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
> >sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
> >through those bays, but never got around to it.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
> "gravity furnaces" work by convection. Warm air enters the room at a
> "warm "wall and rizes to the ceiling where it cools and falls down the
> "cole" wall. Putting heat up the cold wall causes the air to cool and
> drop without circulating. Most "octopus" or "gravity" furnaces
> discharged heat close to the center of the house with the cold air
> returns nearthe floor in outside walls or in the floor near the
> outside walls - often under winfows causing the still warm-ish air to
> cause a "curtain effect" at the window, drawing the cold draft into
> the cold air return. This is why when gravity furnaces were replaced
> with forced air units the total ducting had to be re-done - with some
> installers simply reversing the air flow - making the returns the heat
> outlets and the outlets the returns.

I get that the ducting "should" be re-done. But millions of houses were
converted from gravity to forced-air without the ducting actually changing.

Cindy Hamilton

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 3:54:46 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 5:46:07 AM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
> >> .
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
> >> >> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
> >> >
> >> >Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
> >> >gravity furnaces.
> >> >In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
> >> >that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
> >> >walls.
> >> >Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
> >> >sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
> >> >through those bays, but never got around to it.
> >> >Cindy Hamilton
> >> You're in Michigan ? with uninsulated walls ?
> >> John T.
> >
> >Concrete block veneered on the outside with split fieldstone (R1 at best). On the
> >inside, 1/4 inch furring strips with vintage 1947 drywall nailed up. Skim coated
> >with plaster. It would be a giant pain to take down the drywall, fur out the walls with
> >2x4 or 2.6, re-wire, insulate, drywall, and paint. When we remodeled the bathroom,
> >we did insulate the exterior wall.
> >
> >Our heating costs are surprisingly low, probably because the attic has more
> >than 1 foot of blown-in insulation. And the house is only 1200 square feet
> >or so. I'll admit if you're not wearing sleeves in the winter, the arm on the side
> >facing the exterior wall is a little chilly as your body heat radiates outward toward
> >that cold wall.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
> Many of those buildings had "block fill" insulation inthe block
> cavities (often vermiculite) - otherwize the "dead air" in the
> cavities acted as a low value insulation. If fly-ash was used as the
> aggregate for the block(cinder block) the thermal conductivity of the
> blockis a lot lower than if granular stone was used.

Probably fly ash for my walls (the blocks are gray/black). Stone for the
foundation blocks, which are the normal gray.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sat, 30 Oct 2021 03:04:46 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
<angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 3:49:08 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:39:04 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:12 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 17:22:16 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
>> >> ><comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>> >> >>> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >>> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> >> >>> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> >> >>> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
>> >> >>> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >> >>> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
>> >> >>> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> > > >> >
>> >> >>> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
>> >> >>> > > >> >
>> >> >>> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
>> >> >>> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
>> >> >>> > > >> >
>> >> >>> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
>> >> >>> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
>> >> >>> > > >> >
>> >> >>> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
>> >> >>> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
>> >> >>> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
>> >> >>> > > >
>> >> >>> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
>> >> >>> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
>> >> >>> > > >I think.
>> >> >>> > > >
>> >> >>> > > >Cindy Hamilton
>> >> >>> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
>> >> >>> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
>> >> >>> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
>> >> >>> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
>> >> >>> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
>> >> >>> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
>> >> >>> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
>> >> >>> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
>> >> >>> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
>> >> >>> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
>> >> >>> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
>> >> >>> > work was downright sketchy.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Cindy Hamilton
>> >> >>> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
>> >> >>> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
>> >> >>> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
>> >> >>> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
>> >> >>> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
>> >> >>> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
>> >> >>> It would save on energy.
>> >> Much better comfort with the heaton the outside walls -and also much
>> >> more efficientway to keep the house comfortable. - particularly with
>> >> constant low speed air circulation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
>> >> >>between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
>> >> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
>> >
>> >Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
>> >gravity furnaces.
>> >
>> >In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
>> >that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
>> >walls.
>> >
>> >Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
>> >sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
>> >through those bays, but never got around to it.
>> >
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>> "gravity furnaces" work by convection. Warm air enters the room at a
>> "warm "wall and rizes to the ceiling where it cools and falls down the
>> "cole" wall. Putting heat up the cold wall causes the air to cool and
>> drop without circulating. Most "octopus" or "gravity" furnaces
>> discharged heat close to the center of the house with the cold air
>> returns nearthe floor in outside walls or in the floor near the
>> outside walls - often under winfows causing the still warm-ish air to
>> cause a "curtain effect" at the window, drawing the cold draft into
>> the cold air return. This is why when gravity furnaces were replaced
>> with forced air units the total ducting had to be re-done - with some
>> installers simply reversing the air flow - making the returns the heat
>> outlets and the outlets the returns.
>
>I get that the ducting "should" be re-done. But millions of houses were
>converted from gravity to forced-air without the ducting actually changing.
>
>Cindy Hamilton
Without at lerast reversing the air flow the house will be hell to
heart and NEVER be comfortable due to cold drafts.

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 6:08:19 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2021 03:04:46 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 3:49:08 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >> On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 02:39:04 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> >> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:01:12 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 17:22:16 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
> >> >> ><comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 11:15:41 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
> >> >> >>> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:55:18 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >>> > On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
> >> >> >>> > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
> >> >> >>> > > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > >On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-4, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> >> >> >>> > > >> On 10/25/2021 2:45 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
> >> >> >>> > > >> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:15:02 +0000, ZOYA
> >> >> >>> > > >> > <a227206e895301ff...@example.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >> >>> > > >> >> I need to move the existing air return register from the wall. Handyman offered to put in in the floor. I saw them only being installed in the lower part of the wall, not IN the floor. Will that work the same and how many of them I need in 440 Sq,f, room?
> >> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >> >>> > > >> > They are actually better in the wall, low for heat, high for AC, if
> >> >> >>> > > >> > not in the ceiling. Floor registers tend to collect dirt.
> >> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >> >>> > > >> > On AC installs the return usually goes where the installer put his
> >> >> >>> > > >> > foot through the ceiling. :-)
> >> >> >>> > > >> >
> >> >> >>> > > >> They also may limit decorative or even functional layout of rugs or
> >> >> >>> > > >> obstructive furniture e.g., wall units, floor-standing audio speakers,
> >> >> >>> > > >> standing lamp bases, etc.
> >> >> >>> > > >
> >> >> >>> > > >As luck would have it, all of ours are under windows, so we're not inclined
> >> >> >>> > > >to put furniture there anyway. Designed for the original gravity furnace,
> >> >> >>> > > >I think.
> >> >> >>> > > >
> >> >> >>> > > >Cindy Hamilton
> >> >> >>> > > Heat OUTLETS are generally placed below windows so the heat helps
> >> >> >>> > > "hide" the cold draft from the window and helps keep the windows from
> >> >> >>> > > frosting/condensing/fogging
> >> >> >>> > Cold air leaks through the window and immediately drops down the
> >> >> >>> > return. Reduces drafts and pushes air through the gravity furnace.
> >> >> >>> > This house (1947) and our previous house (1954) had the returns
> >> >> >>> > under the windows. I can't recall how the house before that was laid out.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > I suspect the original windows on this house were single-pane, steel-frame.
> >> >> >>> > The garage has a couple of them, still.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > In fact, the returns were originally let into the wall beneath the window. But
> >> >> >>> > the air washed directly down the foundation block and water condensed on
> >> >> >>> > the block, promoting mold growth. We re-worked them into the floor with
> >> >> >>> > a proper boot and insulation separating the duct from the block.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > The building of my house was a helluva stonemason, but some of his other
> >> >> >>> > work was downright sketchy.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Cindy Hamilton
> >> >> >>> I've wondered about the practice of putting the vents on the outside walls.
> >> >> >>> I agree with Clare's reasoning, the windows, outside walls are going to be
> >> >> >>> the coldest, so it makes sense from that standpoint. On the other hand
> >> >> >>> the result is the vent has almost no insulation between it and the cold or
> >> >> >>> hot outside wall. I wonder if any studies have been done to see if there is
> >> >> >>> a noticeable difference in comfort if it was done with vents on interior walls?
> >> >> >>> It would save on energy.
> >> >> Much better comfort with the heaton the outside walls -and also much
> >> >> more efficientway to keep the house comfortable. - particularly with
> >> >> constant low speed air circulation.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>The heat registers in my 1956 three bedroom colonial are split almost 50/50
> >> >> >>between inside walls and outside walls. Returns are also split in a similar fashion.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>There are no returns directly under windows.
> >> >> Returns under the windows for heating makes acsolutely ZERO sense.
> >> >
> >> >Not with forced-air heating. But many older houses were designed for
> >> >gravity furnaces.
> >> >
> >> >In my particular case, the uninsulated, masonry exterior walls are so cold
> >> >that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if the heat was on the outside
> >> >walls.
> >> >
> >> >Most of the returns in my house are just floor-joist bays with some aluminum
> >> >sheet nailed up to form a primitive duct. We'd intended to run real duct
> >> >through those bays, but never got around to it.
> >> >
> >> >Cindy Hamilton
> >> "gravity furnaces" work by convection. Warm air enters the room at a
> >> "warm "wall and rizes to the ceiling where it cools and falls down the
> >> "cole" wall. Putting heat up the cold wall causes the air to cool and
> >> drop without circulating. Most "octopus" or "gravity" furnaces
> >> discharged heat close to the center of the house with the cold air
> >> returns nearthe floor in outside walls or in the floor near the
> >> outside walls - often under winfows causing the still warm-ish air to
> >> cause a "curtain effect" at the window, drawing the cold draft into
> >> the cold air return. This is why when gravity furnaces were replaced
> >> with forced air units the total ducting had to be re-done - with some
> >> installers simply reversing the air flow - making the returns the heat
> >> outlets and the outlets the returns.
> >
> >I get that the ducting "should" be re-done. But millions of houses were
> >converted from gravity to forced-air without the ducting actually changing.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
> Without at lerast reversing the air flow the house will be hell to
> heart and NEVER be comfortable due to cold drafts.

Hell to heat? Not so much. Cold drafts, definitely.

My anecdotal "data" includes my grandparents' house, my mother's house,
and the three houses that I've owned. All of them had the returns on the
outside walls. All of them were built before 1960.

Cindy Hamilton