On 19/03/22 00:44, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:17:00 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 17/03/22 09:54, Ross Clark wrote:
>
>>> Ha! Just heard of this book (INANB) running into some trouble in
>>> Mississippi. It's by a New Zealand author, Dawn McMillan.
>>
>> That book would have been banned when I was in primary school, but
>> ideas about what is suitable for children have evolved since then.
>> It sounds as if someone in Mississippi is stuck in the past.
>>
>> In our system, teachers have to refresh their credentials every so
>> often. I don't know the precise details, but a side-effect would
>> be that they would be exposed to newer ideas.
>>
>> I know that US schools are more decentralised than ours, but I
>> don't know who makes the hiring and firing decisions. Is it
>> possible for a teacher to be fired by someone whose teaching
>> credentials are way out of date?
>
> School administration is a different endeavor entirely from
> teaching.

Even so, I would hope that the administrators are familiar with what
goes on in schools. You wouldn't want the important decisions made by
people with little experience.

> Hopefully others have made it clear how differently these things are
> handled in different jurisdictions.

The closest Australian equivalent to your school district is an entire
state. Teachers (except in private schools) are employed by the State
Department of Education. The administrative people are also employees of
that department. A school principal can recommend that a
poorly-performing teacher be dismissed, but that would require a
high-level investigation. In controversial cases it might be bumped all
the way up to the Minister of Education, but I believe that that's a
rare situation. (I wouldn't know; I suspect that the majority of cases
are decided behind closed doors.)

New teachers are likely to be appointed to the unpopular schools way out
in the bush, and might also be frequently transferred between schools.
As teachers gain seniority they have a better chance of moving to the
more popular city schools. (This probably depends on getting good
references from their past principals.) A school principal is a teacher
who has gained a lot of seniority.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 8:20:12 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/03/22 00:44, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:17:00 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 17/03/22 09:54, Ross Clark wrote:
> >>> Ha! Just heard of this book (INANB) running into some trouble in
> >>> Mississippi. It's by a New Zealand author, Dawn McMillan.
> >> That book would have been banned when I was in primary school, but
> >> ideas about what is suitable for children have evolved since then.
> >> It sounds as if someone in Mississippi is stuck in the past.
> >> In our system, teachers have to refresh their credentials every so
> >> often. I don't know the precise details, but a side-effect would
> >> be that they would be exposed to newer ideas.
> >> I know that US schools are more decentralised than ours, but I
> >> don't know who makes the hiring and firing decisions. Is it
> >> possible for a teacher to be fired by someone whose teaching
> >> credentials are way out of date?
> > School administration is a different endeavor entirely from
> > teaching.
>
> Even so, I would hope that the administrators are familiar with what
> goes on in schools. You wouldn't want the important decisions made by
> people with little experience.

"School administration" means the people on the spot -- principals
and their support staff. There are degrees in that from Schools of Ed.
You may be referring to governing bodies such as (US) school boards
(elected, often an individual's very first foray into politics) or Boards
of Regents or legislatures (different systems in different states).

> > Hopefully others have made it clear how differently these things are
> > handled in different jurisdictions.
>
> The closest Australian equivalent to your school district is an entire
> state. Teachers (except in private schools) are employed by the State
> Department of Education.

Even Texas and California, the only states where curricula are set
statewide,* don't do that.

*Which is a huge problem for textbook publishers. They're the two
largest states, so the largest markets, so what they say pretty much
goes -- but they are polar opposites in "left-right" terms. A history
book in CA can say, for instance, that Slavery Was Bad. One in TX,
perhaps not.

> The administrative people are also employees of
> that department. A school principal can recommend that a
> poorly-performing teacher be dismissed, but that would require a
> high-level investigation. In controversial cases it might be bumped all
> the way up to the Minister of Education, but I believe that that's a
> rare situation. (I wouldn't know; I suspect that the majority of cases
> are decided behind closed doors.)

Over Here, it's the unions. Government employee unions are just
about the only powerful ones left, and teachers' unions are among
the most powerful, and they go to great lengths to protect teachers'
employment.

> New teachers are likely to be appointed to the unpopular schools way out
> in the bush, and might also be frequently transferred between schools.
> As teachers gain seniority they have a better chance of moving to the
> more popular city schools. (This probably depends on getting good
> references from their past principals.) A school principal is a teacher
> who has gained a lot of seniority.

Which may not give them competence in administration. See Peter Principle.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 06:12:30 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 8:20:12 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 19/03/22 00:44, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:17:00 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> >> On 17/03/22 09:54, Ross Clark wrote:
>
>> >>> Ha! Just heard of this book (INANB) running into some trouble in
>> >>> Mississippi. It's by a New Zealand author, Dawn McMillan.
>> >> That book would have been banned when I was in primary school, but
>> >> ideas about what is suitable for children have evolved since then.
>> >> It sounds as if someone in Mississippi is stuck in the past.
>> >> In our system, teachers have to refresh their credentials every so
>> >> often. I don't know the precise details, but a side-effect would
>> >> be that they would be exposed to newer ideas.
>> >> I know that US schools are more decentralised than ours, but I
>> >> don't know who makes the hiring and firing decisions. Is it
>> >> possible for a teacher to be fired by someone whose teaching
>> >> credentials are way out of date?
>> > School administration is a different endeavor entirely from
>> > teaching.
>>
>> Even so, I would hope that the administrators are familiar with what
>> goes on in schools. You wouldn't want the important decisions made by
>> people with little experience.
>
>"School administration" means the people on the spot -- principals
>and their support staff

I don't think that describes "School administration" at all.

Using the structure where I live, the "school district" includes over
68,000 students in 37 elementary schools, 12 middle schools, and 9
high schools. There are about 3,300 teachers included in the 10,000+-
employees of the school district. (Those figures do not include the
private schools in the district.)

There are 76 school districts in Florida, and the one described here
is not the largest.

While the Principal. Vice Principals, and other staff at the
individual schools are part of the administration, the Superintendent
of the district is the top administrator in the system. There are
almost a dozen Deputy Superintendents/Assistant
Superintendents/Directors of (specific areas) in the system.

While the Principal of a school may have some administrative
functions, it is limited to just that school and must follow the
administrative policies of the district system.

The district system, in turn, follows the administrative polices of
the Florida Department of Education in the state capitol in
Tallahassee.

There are very few "on the spot" administrative actions that a
Principal can make on his/her own.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida