I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.

To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)

context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space.."
2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.

question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.

"Tonbei":
> I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>
> To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would
> send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one
> five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the
> speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines
> whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record
> the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)

You mean "2001: A Space Odyssey".
> question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen
> often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".

Yes.

> What's indicated by "it" there?

It's a dummy subject, as in "It was their duty to do that".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Luckily, it's impossible to mispronounce "Canada"
msb@vex.net | even if you try. --Stan Brown

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 19:52:31 -0800 (PST), tonbei <autosu@infoseek.jp>
wrote:

>I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>
>To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse.
About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light,
that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was
would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A
Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
>
>context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
>2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
>
>question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
>What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
>If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
>It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
>Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.

The "information" is "it". "Duty" is to be understand as the
machine's job or function which is to amplify and record the signal.

If you feel it necessary to paraphrase:

The machines that would amplify and record the signal would be waiting
for the information.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

Le dimanche 13 mars 2022 à 05:05:28 UTC+1, Mark Brader a écrit :
> "Tonbei":
> > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
> >
> > To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would
> > send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one
> > five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the
> > speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines
> > whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record
> > the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
> You mean "2001: A Space Odyssey".
> > question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen
> > often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
> Yes.
> > What's indicated by "it" there?
> It's a dummy subject, as in "It was their duty to do that".

Just a minor quibble, but that's an "anticipatory it" rather
than an actual "dummy it" (as in "It is snowing"). The difference
is that here, "it" refers to ("anticipates") "to do that", whereas a
"dummy it" has no referent at all.

> --
> Mark Brader, Toronto | Luckily, it's impossible to mispronounce "Canada"
> m...@vex.net | even if you try. --Stan Brown
>
> My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Tonbei" quotes Arthur C. Clarke:
> ...The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they
> would amplify and record the signal.

And asks:
> question: about "whose duty it was." ... What's indicated
> by "it" there?

Tony Cooper:
> The "information" is "it".

No, that's the second "it" in the original sentence. Tonbei asked about
the first one, which (as I said) is a dummy subject.

> If you feel it necessary to paraphrase:
>
> The machines that would amplify and record the signal would be waiting
> for the information.

That's a correct paraphrase.
--
Mark Brader "People with whole brains, however, dispute
Toronto this claim, and are generally more articulate
msb@vex.net in expressing their views." -- Gary Larson

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On 13/03/22 14:52, tonbei wrote:
> I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>
> To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
>
> context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
> 2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
>
> question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
> What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
> If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
> It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
> Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.

Since your paraphrase still leaves you unsure about the "it", we need a
better paraphrase. How about this:

It was the duty of the machines to wait for the pulse ...

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

2022年3月13日日曜日 14:19:09 UTC+9 Peter Moylan:
> On 13/03/22 14:52, tonbei wrote:
> > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
> >
> > To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
> >
> > context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
> > 2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
> >
> > question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
> > What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
> > If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
> > It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
> > Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.
> Since your paraphrase still leaves you unsure about the "it", we need a
> better paraphrase. How about this:
>
> It was the duty of the machines to wait for the pulse ...
>
> --
> Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

In my mind, "Preparatory it" and "Anticipatory it" are hard to be distinguished. Actually, I've never heard of "Anticipatory it", My grammar book only says about "Preparatory it."
Anyway, those "it"s both seem to indicate what is described after that.

In my quoted sentence: "The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it", that "it" should be "waiting for it."

So, if one breaks down the sentence and reconstructs it, it might be:
the machine whose duty was to wait for it, so would be waiting for it.

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 12:30:06 AM UTC-8, tonbei wrote:
> 2022年3月13日日曜日 14:19:09 UTC+9 Peter Moylan:
> > On 13/03/22 14:52, tonbei wrote:
> > > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
> > >
> > > To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
> > >
> > > context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
> > > 2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
> > >
> > > question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
> > > What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
> > > If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
> > > It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
> > > Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.
> > Since your paraphrase still leaves you unsure about the "it", we need a
> > better paraphrase. How about this:
> >
> > It was the duty of the machines to wait for the pulse ...
> >
A duty is a moral or legal obligation, applicable in my universe only to
human beings. Machines have functions, not duties.

bill

> A duty is a moral or legal obligation, applicable in my universe only to
> human beings. Machines have functions, not duties.

Humans have an ability to feel things as persons, or personification.

On 3/13/2022 12:10 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> "Tonbei" quotes Arthur C. Clarke:

>> ...The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they
>> would amplify and record the signal.

And asks:
>> question: about "whose duty it was." ... What's indicated by "it"
>> there?

Tony Cooper:
>> The "information" is "it".

> No, that's the second "it" in the original sentence. Tonbei asked
> about the first one, which (as I said) is a dummy subject.

>> If you feel it necessary to paraphrase:

>> The machines that would amplify and record the signal would be
>> waiting for the information.

> That's a correct paraphrase.

I'm going to disagree with everybody, just a little bit. I agree that
the (first) "it" is anticipatory, as Bebercito says, but I think that
the referent it anticipates is "[to] be waiting for it".

I've made the sentence into a diagram as follows:

https://image02.seesaawiki.jp/a/4/a4674/ojFo7XfMgw.jpg

Does that reflect the right sense of the sentence?

Sun, 13 Mar 2022 06:25:50 -0700 (PDT): tonbei <autosu@infoseek.jp>
scribeva:
>I've made the sentence into a diagram as follows:
>
>https://image02.seesaawiki.jp/a/4/a4674/ojFo7XfMgw.jpg
>
>Does that reflect the right sense of the sentence?

I think it is grammatically correct.

Semantically though, I think 'waiting' is a bit strange as a task. I'd
rather expect the machines to be waiting for the moment they can start
their real task, which is processing the information they will receive
(in an otherwise unspecified way).

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 01:12:17 -0800 (PST), "bil...@shaw.ca"
<billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 12:30:06 AM UTC-8, tonbei wrote:
>> 2022?3?13???? 14:19:09 UTC+9 Peter Moylan:
>> > On 13/03/22 14:52, tonbei wrote:
>> > > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>> > >
>> > > To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
>> > >
>> > > context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
>> > > 2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
>> > >
>> > > question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
>> > > What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
>> > > If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
>> > > It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
>> > > Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.
>> > Since your paraphrase still leaves you unsure about the "it", we need a
>> > better paraphrase. How about this:
>> >
>> > It was the duty of the machines to wait for the pulse ...
>> >
>A duty is a moral or legal obligation, applicable in my universe only to
>human beings. Machines have functions, not duties.
>

While I agree with you, the question here was to interpret the
sentence as written. While we may not agree that "duty" is the right
word, it can be determined what the author meant and the meaning
explained.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 11:16:08 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 19:52:31 -0800 (PST), tonbei <aut...@infoseek.jp>
> wrote:
> >I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
> >
> >To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse.
> About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light,
> that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was
> would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A
> Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
> >
> >context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
> >2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
> >
> >question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
> >What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
> >If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
> >It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
> >Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.
>
> The "information" is "it". "Duty" is to be understand as the
> machine's job or function which is to amplify and record the signal.

Wrong. What does "it" stand for in "it's raining"? in "it's time to get up"?
> If you feel it necessary to paraphrase:
>
> The machines that would amplify and record the signal would be waiting
> for the information.

Le dimanche 13 mars 2022 à 13:18:39 UTC+1, CDB a écrit :
> On 3/13/2022 12:10 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> > "Tonbei" quotes Arthur C. Clarke:
>
> >> ...The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they
> >> would amplify and record the signal.
>
> And asks:
> >> question: about "whose duty it was." ... What's indicated by "it"
> >> there?
>
> Tony Cooper:
> >> The "information" is "it".
>
> > No, that's the second "it" in the original sentence. Tonbei asked
> > about the first one, which (as I said) is a dummy subject.
>
> >> If you feel it necessary to paraphrase:
>
> >> The machines that would amplify and record the signal would be
> >> waiting for the information.
>
> > That's a correct paraphrase.
> I'm going to disagree with everybody, just a little bit. I agree that
> the (first) "it" is anticipatory, as Bebercito says, but I think that
> the referent it anticipates is "[to] be waiting for it".

I quite concur with that: what I wrote specifically applied to
the sentence as simplified by MB, i.e. "It was their duty to
do that".

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 4:30:06 AM UTC-4, tonbei wrote:
> 2022年3月13日日曜日 14:19:09 UTC+9 Peter Moylan:
> > On 13/03/22 14:52, tonbei wrote:
> > > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
> > >
> > > To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
> > >
> > > context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
> > > 2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
> > >
> > > question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
> > > What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
> > > If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
> > > It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
> > > Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.
> > Since your paraphrase still leaves you unsure about the "it", we need a
> > better paraphrase. How about this:
> >
> > It was the duty of the machines to wait for the pulse ...
>
> In my mind, "Preparatory it" and "Anticipatory it" are hard to be distinguished. Actually, I've never heard of "Anticipatory it", My grammar book only says about "Preparatory it."

I've never heard of either of those. ESL books invent strange terminology.

> Anyway, those "it"s both seem to indicate what is described after that.
>
> In my quoted sentence: "The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it", that "it" should be "waiting for it."
>
> So, if one breaks down the sentence and reconstructs it, it might be:
> the machine whose duty was to wait for it, so would be waiting for it.

* Tony Cooper:

> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 01:12:17 -0800 (PST), "bil...@shaw.ca"
> <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 12:30:06 AM UTC-8, tonbei wrote:
>>> 2022?3?13???? 14:19:09 UTC+9 Peter Moylan:
>>> > On 13/03/22 14:52, tonbei wrote:
>>> > > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>>> > >
>>> > > To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
>>> > >
>>> > > context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
>>> > > 2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
>>> > >
>>> > > question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
>>> > > What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
>>> > > If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
>>> > > It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
>>> > > Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.
>>> > Since your paraphrase still leaves you unsure about the "it", we need a
>>> > better paraphrase. How about this:
>>> >
>>> > It was the duty of the machines to wait for the pulse ...
>>> >
>>A duty is a moral or legal obligation, applicable in my universe only to
>>human beings. Machines have functions, not duties.
>>
>
> While I agree with you, the question here was to interpret the
> sentence as written. While we may not agree that "duty" is the right
> word, it can be determined what the author meant and the meaning
> explained.

And it takes some chutzpah to tell Arthur C. Clarke that he used English
wrong.

The metaphor is pretty obvious, considering that if the machine doesn't
perform its function as expected, it will be replaced, as will be a
human officeholder - a functionary(!) - not fulfilling their duty.

--
Well, if that isn't the Quacta calling the Stifling slimy.
-- Boba Fett

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 4:30:06 AM UTC-4, tonbei wrote:
>> 2022年3月13日日曜日 14:19:09 UTC+9 Peter Moylan:
>>> On 13/03/22 14:52, tonbei wrote:
>>> > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>>> >
>>> > To that far-off planet Earth, every twenty-four hours, the monitor would send the information it had patiently garnered, packed neatly into one five-minute pulse. About a quarter of an hour later, travelling at the speed of light, that pulse would reach its destination. The machines whose duty it was would be waiting for it; they would amplify and record the signal. ("A Space Odyssey 2001" by A.C.Clarke)
>>> >
>>> > context (or situation): 1) This is about "Deep Space Monitor" sent from the Earth to catch and gather various kinds of signals coming from "Deep Space."
>>> > 2) Those signals are sent back to the earth to be stored in the machines there.
>>> >
>>> > question: about "whose duty it was." which is a sentence pattern seen often as in "whose duty (aim, purpose) it is".
>>> > What's indicated by "it" there? Maybe it works as an emphasis like: this is the very duty of their own: waiting for it, etc.
>>> > If so, could it be paraphrased like the following?
>>> > It's the duty of the machines that is waiting for the pulse send by the Deep Space Monitor.
>>> > Anyway, I'm not sure of a usage of "it" here.
>>> Since your paraphrase still leaves you unsure about the "it", we need a
>>> better paraphrase. How about this:
>>>
>>> It was the duty of the machines to wait for the pulse ...
>>
>> In my mind, "Preparatory it" and "Anticipatory it" are hard to be distinguished. Actually, I've never heard of "Anticipatory it", My grammar book only says about "Preparatory it."
>
> I've never heard of either of those. ESL books invent strange terminology.

<https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/it> uses
"anticipatory it".

It's different from a dummy subject and needs some name.

--
There is a whole cottage industry devoted to people who are
upset by the idea of others being outraged.
-- Washington Post 2019-09-18

I've revised the diagram I previously posted.

https://image02.seesaawiki.jp/a/4/a4674/jh_Vm4KOvD.jpg