On 9/20/21 4:01 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <9eb0d221-4477-426c-bf11-2afa59fe5cfen@googlegroups.com>,
> angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com says...
>>
>>> Each person assigns the value to their own life in the form of the amount of
>>> life insurance that they carry.
>>
>> The intangible value of your life and your wife's (or mine and my husband's)
>> doesn't enter into whether it's worth it to analyze the data to ferret
>> out the cause of breakthrough COVID infections
>>
>
> So you are saying that if a cop shoots someone like the cop that pulled
> their gun instead of the taser and killed a man in the back seat of the
> car the family should not be awared any money if he did not have
> insurance ?
>
>

Life insurance amounts are generally determined by the person being
insured, depending on amount desired, and cost.

Wrongful death monetary awards are determined by arbitrated settlement,
or a judge or a jury.

In article <_4SdnYQvs7K9YdX8nZ2dnUU7-Y3NnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"\"Retired"@home.com says...
>
> Life insurance amounts are generally determined by the person being
> insured, depending on amount desired, and cost.
>
> Wrongful death monetary awards are determined by arbitrated settlement,
> or a judge or a jury.
>
>

I thought that was what the discussion was about. How much the judge
should award was to be based on the insurance someone had. No
insurance, no money.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 06:53:58 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
<angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:52:23 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 05:28:54 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 2:29:25 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 02:09:42 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 10:21:00 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> >> >> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 11:52:25 AM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> I trust actual numbers directly from the hospital involved more than I
>> >> >> >> trust a political operation like CDC to assemble data without bias.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Let's consider for a moment all the information we'd need to really determine
>> >> >> >why your hospital is seeing the results it is.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Which vaccines were administered to which patients?
>> >> >> >What lots were patients injected with?
>> >> >> >What conditions were the vaccines held at between manufacture and injection?
>> >> >> >Did they get the two doses at the prescribed intervals?
>> >> >> >Age of patient.
>> >> >> >Previous health condition (could be hard to find out any unknown problems at this point)
>> >> >> >General physical condition.
>> >> >> >Anything else?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Does it seem like anybody has all of this information? Who might have the funding
>> >> >> >to accumulate this information and analyze it?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Cindy Hamilton
>> >> >> How much are 100 lives worth?
>> >> >
>> >> >Ah. I devised an answer for that about 40 years ago:
>> >> >
>> >> >Each person assigns the value to their own life in the form of the amount of
>> >> >life insurance that they carry.
>> >> >
>> >> >Cindy Hamilton
>> >> So you don't care about dead kids? They typically have zero insurance.
>> >
>> >I don't care about particular dead kids. Obviously their parents are free
>> >to purchase whatever life insurance they feel is appropriate.
>> >
>> >> Society feels differently.
>> >
>> >And as a member of society, I am interested in the welfare of kids in
>> >general, so that the infrastructure will be maintained until my death.
>> >
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>> I am just pointing out your insurance analogy is bogus.
>
>Fair enough. People are entitled to analyze the value of a human life
>in their own way.
>
>> A surprising number of people do not have any life insurance unless
>> that comes from their employer and that is becoming more rare.
>
>Then they don't value their lives very highly.
>

It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
make more sense than life insurance.
I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
on company business. When you are young that seems reasonable.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:28:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 10:12:20 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 07:53:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 4:19:44 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:36:49 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >gfre...@aol.com writes:
>> >> >>On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 08:22:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>> >> >><tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> My numbers come from the local hospital reports.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> A couple of days ago on my NBC news.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> https://nbc-2.com/news/health/covid/2021/09/14/covid-19-numbers-improving-but-maybe-short-lived/
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Go towards the end and look at the graphic.
>> >> >>>> 144 hospitalized
>> >> >>>> 118 not vaccinated so 26 were
>> >> >>>> 26/144 18%
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That's a classic. The guy who was telling us about how to analyze problems
>> >> >>>from end to end, where to look, what an engineer would do, uses a TV report
>> >> >>>for the hospitals in one county, a whopping 144 cases, to draw conclusions on
>> >> >>>the percentages of hospitalized breakthrough cases for the US.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>OK this is last nights numbers
>> >> >>82% unvaccinated out of 127 in the hospital.
>> >> >
>> >> >Your numbers are far too small to be statistically interesting.
>> >> That is the problem with statisticians. A couple hundred dead people
>> >> and a thousand or more hospitalized, after vaccination, doesn't
>> >> impress them.
>> >
>> >I just posted that maybe there is hope for you yet. Now I have to take
>> >that back.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> If it is your neighbors you might want to see if there is something
>> >> else going on tho.
>> >> The more you and Trader talk the more I think someone should be
>> >> investigating this. I bet there are other pockets that reflect the
>> >> same kind of failures.
>> >
>> >Right, the more we show you the credible data for the whole country,
>> >state by state, etc, vs your data for 127 patients in one hospital system,
>> >the more you think an investigation is required. Never mind that no
>> >actual failures have been identified. For all we know that hospital
>> >system could have patients mostly from nursing homes, where there
>> >was a high vaccination rate, combined with old people with a lot of
>> >serious pre-existing conditions.
>> Your "credible data" (the CDC site) commingles the number of vaxed and
>> in the hospital with the whole population, not a direct comparison of
>> vaxed vs unvaxed patients.
>> When I see obfuscation like that I suspect people are massaging the
>> view to get a number they like.
>
>Idk which specific link you're referring to. I showed you a link from CDC
>that showed ~14K vaccinated Covid hospital patients since day one. And pointed
>out that there are 100K+ Covid patients in the hospitals right now. So....
>if 20% of hospital patients are unvaccinated, that would mean that about
>20K would be in the hospital right now, yet CDC says that the total number
>since Covid started is just 14K. I don't see how you could call that
>"obfuscation", but I'm not surprised either.

Link it again and we will look at it together

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:55:28 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:29:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
><trader4@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:08:08 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
>>> On 9/13/2021 9:14 AM, micky wrote:
>>> > In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 13 Sep 2021 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>>> > <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:48:02 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >>> On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:09:01 AM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>> >>>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 22:20:28 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 12 Sep 2021 11:03:53 -0700 (PDT),
>>> >>>>> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Maybe it is just the field engineer in me but when a product is
>>> >>>>>>> performing below expectations
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> If you were a decent field engineer, you wouldn't make up facts like
>>> >>>>> it's "performing below expectations".
>>> >>>> Any failure should be investigated just to see if it was preventable
>>> >>>> and not saying "shit happens".
>>> >>> What do we do? How do you suggest investigating the immune
>>> >>> response to the vaccine in a dead person?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> This is another example of Fretwell just making things up. I have not seen
>>> >> anyone involved in the vaccine program just saying "shit happens". I'm
>>> >> confident that these great professionals, patriots that are saving lives around
>>> >> the world, are busy trying to figure out how to make better vaccines.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> How many deaths does it take to be "below expectations" to you?
>>> >>>>>>> I would want to look at all of the steps
>>> >>>>>>> in the process to see why it is failing,
>>> >>> It's failing in the field at pretty much the same rate as in the
>>> >>> very carefully controlled trials. It's behaving according to
>>> >>> expectations. Not not according to wishful thinking that we'd
>>> >>> have 100% protection from the vaccine.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> EVERY vaccine fails in some people. The MMR vaccine has
>>> >>> been in use for decades:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective.
>>> >>>>> Is this how you made excuses for your failures?
>>> >>>> I didn't EVER fail. I might have had to take a few swings at something
>>> >>>> but I found the problem.
>>> >>>> In the latter part of my career I was mining databases looking for
>>> >>>> problems with the process but "Shit happens" was never an acceptable
>>> >>>> answer.
>>> >>>> All I am saying is, has anyone actually looked to see if there is a
>>> >>>> correlation of who had a breakthrough infection and how their vaccine
>>> >>>> was handled. Maybe look at the time of day that they got the shot if
>>> >>>> nothing else. (the Chain, the location etc).
>>> >>> Nobody here is an epidemiologist. We don't know the answer
>>> >>> to your questions. You're going to have to do the literature search
>>> >>> yourself.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Cindy Hamilton
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> And the data probably does not exist, ie how long any given dose of vaccine was
>>> >> at room temperature before being injected. I have faith in the scientists, that if
>>> >
>>> > No, I think that probably does exist. AIUI there are two stages of
>>> > thawing and I think they make a log entry when they move any of it from
>>> > from frozen to stage 1 or 2.
>>> >
>>> > And I think in some cases, the batch number gets written right on the
>>> > little Vax card. In all cases, it's in the records. (A few added
>>> > details separately in the next post.)
>>> It was a printed sticker on my card, taken from a tag attached to the
>>> syringe. Also had the expiration date.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Sure but that just shows the vial it came from, nothing about how long that
>>vial had been at room temperature.
>
>But the logs for batches show when each batch was defrosted.
>
>And there's no need to give patients the log for his batch, a log that
>isn't even finished until each vial and the whole batch has been
>injected.

The problem is that without access to pharmacy records that is
probably not going to be available. The best chance might be to look
at the time of the first and last vaccination out of a given batch.

angelica...@yahoo.com <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote
> gfre...@aol.com wrote
>> angelica...@yahoo.com <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> >On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 2:29:25 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 02:09:42 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 10:21:00 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> >> >> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 11:52:25 AM UTC-4,
>> >> >> >gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> I trust actual numbers directly from the hospital involved more
>> >> >> >> than I
>> >> >> >> trust a political operation like CDC to assemble data without
>> >> >> >> bias.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Let's consider for a moment all the information we'd need to
>> >> >> >really determine
>> >> >> >why your hospital is seeing the results it is.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Which vaccines were administered to which patients?
>> >> >> >What lots were patients injected with?
>> >> >> >What conditions were the vaccines held at between manufacture and
>> >> >> >injection?
>> >> >> >Did they get the two doses at the prescribed intervals?
>> >> >> >Age of patient.
>> >> >> >Previous health condition (could be hard to find out any unknown
>> >> >> >problems at this point)
>> >> >> >General physical condition.
>> >> >> >Anything else?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Does it seem like anybody has all of this information? Who might
>> >> >> >have the funding
>> >> >> >to accumulate this information and analyze it?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Cindy Hamilton
>> >> >> How much are 100 lives worth?
>> >> >
>> >> >Ah. I devised an answer for that about 40 years ago:
>> >> >
>> >> >Each person assigns the value to their own life in the form of the
>> >> >amount of
>> >> >life insurance that they carry.
>> >> >
>> >> >Cindy Hamilton
>> >> So you don't care about dead kids? They typically have zero insurance.
>> >
>> >I don't care about particular dead kids. Obviously their parents are
>> >free
>> >to purchase whatever life insurance they feel is appropriate.
>> >
>> >> Society feels differently.
>> >
>> >And as a member of society, I am interested in the welfare of kids in
>> >general, so that the infrastructure will be maintained until my death.
>> >
>> >Cindy Hamilton
>> I am just pointing out your insurance analogy is bogus.
>
> Fair enough. People are entitled to analyze the value of a human life
> in their own way.
>
>> A surprising number of people do not have any life insurance unless
>> that comes from their employer and that is becoming more rare.
>
> Then they don't value their lives very highly.

Or they have enough sense to work out whether life insurance is of any use
to them.

Single people without kids don’t need it all.

Couples without kids don’t either if the remaining individual
can still pay off the mortgage fine or have already done so.

Plenty of couples with kids don’t need it either.

On 09/20/2021 07:53 AM, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 12:52:23 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 05:28:54 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 2:29:25 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 02:09:42 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>>>> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 10:21:00 PM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT), "angelica...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 11:52:25 AM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I trust actual numbers directly from the hospital involved more than I
>>>>>>>> trust a political operation like CDC to assemble data without bias.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's consider for a moment all the information we'd need to really determine
>>>>>>> why your hospital is seeing the results it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which vaccines were administered to which patients?
>>>>>>> What lots were patients injected with?
>>>>>>> What conditions were the vaccines held at between manufacture and injection?
>>>>>>> Did they get the two doses at the prescribed intervals?
>>>>>>> Age of patient.
>>>>>>> Previous health condition (could be hard to find out any unknown problems at this point)
>>>>>>> General physical condition.
>>>>>>> Anything else?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does it seem like anybody has all of this information? Who might have the funding
>>>>>>> to accumulate this information and analyze it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>> How much are 100 lives worth?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah. I devised an answer for that about 40 years ago:
>>>>>
>>>>> Each person assigns the value to their own life in the form of the amount of
>>>>> life insurance that they carry.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>> So you don't care about dead kids? They typically have zero insurance.
>>>
>>> I don't care about particular dead kids. Obviously their parents are free
>>> to purchase whatever life insurance they feel is appropriate.
>>>
>>>> Society feels differently.
>>>
>>> And as a member of society, I am interested in the welfare of kids in
>>> general, so that the infrastructure will be maintained until my death.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>> I am just pointing out your insurance analogy is bogus.
>
> Fair enough. People are entitled to analyze the value of a human life
> in their own way.
>
>> A surprising number of people do not have any life insurance unless
>> that comes from their employer and that is becoming more rare.
>
> Then they don't value their lives very highly.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Precisely what is insurance on my life going to do for me?

On 9/20/2021 11:04 PM, rbowman wrote:

>>
>>> A surprising number of people do not have any life insurance unless
>>> that comes from their employer and that is becoming more rare.
>>
>> Then they don't value their lives very highly.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> Precisely what is insurance on my life going to do for me?

You will sleep well knowing someone you designate will have a bunch of
money on your demise. Just be sure the amount is not so high that they
will try to move up your departure time.

In article <i79ikgpnkbm7mkpv8cg0d1u3hvlml3ksdd@4ax.com>,
gfretwell@aol.com says...
>
> It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
> people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
> death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
> make more sense than life insurance.
> I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
> and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
> on company business. When you are young that seems reasonable.
>
>

Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
any life insurance ? Maybe enough for a funeral.

Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote
> gfretwell@aol.com says...

>> It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
>> people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
>> death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
>> make more sense than life insurance.
>> I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
>> and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
>> on company business. When you are young that seems reasonable.
>>
>>
>
> Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
> any life insurance ?

> Maybe enough for a funeral.

Only the most financially incompetent. Older people should have
enough savings to pay for that and its very unlikely that the young
single people will end up dead without other than life insurance
paying for it except with suicide.

On 9/20/21 11:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <i79ikgpnkbm7mkpv8cg0d1u3hvlml3ksdd@4ax.com>,
> gfretwell@aol.com says...
>> It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
>> people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
>> death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
>> make more sense than life insurance.
>> I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
>> and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
>> on company business. When you are young that seems reasonable.
>>
>>
> Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
> any life insurance ? Maybe enough for a funeral.

Local funeral home has a pre-paid pick up and cremate for about $3500 here. Probably not worth worth the typical insurance company hassle for that little.

On 9/21/2021 6:24 AM, Buck Fiden wrote:
> On 9/20/21 11:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article <i79ikgpnkbm7mkpv8cg0d1u3hvlml3ksdd@4ax.com>,
>> gfretwell@aol.com says...
>>> It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
>>> people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
>>> death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
>>> make more sense than life insurance.
>>> I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
>>> and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
>>> on company business.  When you are young that seems reasonable.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
>> any life insurance ?   Maybe enough for a funeral.
>
>
> Local funeral home has a pre-paid pick up and cremate for about $3500
> here. Probably not worth worth the typical insurance company hassle for
> that little.
>
You can do it for about $1000 here.

On 09/20/2021 09:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/20/2021 11:04 PM, rbowman wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> A surprising number of people do not have any life insurance unless
>>>> that comes from their employer and that is becoming more rare.
>>>
>>> Then they don't value their lives very highly.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Precisely what is insurance on my life going to do for me?
>
> You will sleep well knowing someone you designate will have a bunch of
> money on your demise. Just be sure the amount is not so high that they
> will try to move up your departure time.

I sleep fine. If someone wants a payout when I die they can buy the
insurance.

On 09/21/2021 07:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/21/2021 6:24 AM, Buck Fiden wrote:
>> On 9/20/21 11:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>> In article <i79ikgpnkbm7mkpv8cg0d1u3hvlml3ksdd@4ax.com>,
>>> gfretwell@aol.com says...
>>>> It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
>>>> people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
>>>> death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
>>>> make more sense than life insurance.
>>>> I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
>>>> and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
>>>> on company business. When you are young that seems reasonable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
>>> any life insurance ? Maybe enough for a funeral.
>>
>>
>> Local funeral home has a pre-paid pick up and cremate for about $3500
>> here. Probably not worth worth the typical insurance company hassle
>> for that little.
>>
> You can do it for about $1000 here.

The local medical school will do it for free after they get through
doing whatever they do with cadavers. The only catch is you can't also
be an organ donor except for corneas.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Sep 2021 20:30:07 -0400,
gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:55:28 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:29:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>><trader4@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:08:08 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
>>>> On 9/13/2021 9:14 AM, micky wrote:
>>>> > In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 13 Sep 2021 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
>>>> > <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 9:48:02 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> >>> On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:09:01 AM UTC-4, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 22:20:28 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 12 Sep 2021 11:03:53 -0700 (PDT),
>>>> >>>>> "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe it is just the field engineer in me but when a product is
>>>> >>>>>>> performing below expectations
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> If you were a decent field engineer, you wouldn't make up facts like
>>>> >>>>> it's "performing below expectations".
>>>> >>>> Any failure should be investigated just to see if it was preventable
>>>> >>>> and not saying "shit happens".
>>>> >>> What do we do? How do you suggest investigating the immune
>>>> >>> response to the vaccine in a dead person?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This is another example of Fretwell just making things up. I have not seen
>>>> >> anyone involved in the vaccine program just saying "shit happens". I'm
>>>> >> confident that these great professionals, patriots that are saving lives around
>>>> >> the world, are busy trying to figure out how to make better vaccines.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> How many deaths does it take to be "below expectations" to you?
>>>> >>>>>>> I would want to look at all of the steps
>>>> >>>>>>> in the process to see why it is failing,
>>>> >>> It's failing in the field at pretty much the same rate as in the
>>>> >>> very carefully controlled trials. It's behaving according to
>>>> >>> expectations. Not not according to wishful thinking that we'd
>>>> >>> have 100% protection from the vaccine.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> EVERY vaccine fails in some people. The MMR vaccine has
>>>> >>> been in use for decades:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective.
>>>> >>>>> Is this how you made excuses for your failures?
>>>> >>>> I didn't EVER fail. I might have had to take a few swings at something
>>>> >>>> but I found the problem.
>>>> >>>> In the latter part of my career I was mining databases looking for
>>>> >>>> problems with the process but "Shit happens" was never an acceptable
>>>> >>>> answer.
>>>> >>>> All I am saying is, has anyone actually looked to see if there is a
>>>> >>>> correlation of who had a breakthrough infection and how their vaccine
>>>> >>>> was handled. Maybe look at the time of day that they got the shot if
>>>> >>>> nothing else. (the Chain, the location etc).
>>>> >>> Nobody here is an epidemiologist. We don't know the answer
>>>> >>> to your questions. You're going to have to do the literature search
>>>> >>> yourself.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And the data probably does not exist, ie how long any given dose of vaccine was
>>>> >> at room temperature before being injected. I have faith in the scientists, that if
>>>> >
>>>> > No, I think that probably does exist. AIUI there are two stages of
>>>> > thawing and I think they make a log entry when they move any of it from
>>>> > from frozen to stage 1 or 2.
>>>> >
>>>> > And I think in some cases, the batch number gets written right on the
>>>> > little Vax card. In all cases, it's in the records. (A few added
>>>> > details separately in the next post.)
>>>> It was a printed sticker on my card, taken from a tag attached to the
>>>> syringe. Also had the expiration date.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Sure but that just shows the vial it came from, nothing about how long that
>>>vial had been at room temperature.
>>
>>But the logs for batches show when each batch was defrosted.
>>
>>And there's no need to give patients the log for his batch, a log that
>>isn't even finished until each vial and the whole batch has been
>>injected.
>
>The problem is that without access to pharmacy records that is
>probably not going to be available. The best chance might be to look
>at the time of the first and last vaccination out of a given batch.

But it's not a problem at all. It would only be a problem if the
vaccinations weren't working and they're working very well. I only
posted to contradict trader's guess "And the data probably does not
exist, ie how long any given dose of vaccine was at room temperature
before being injected"

There was a problem with one early batch of polio vaccine. I presume
they found it because some vaccinated people still got polio and they
all lived near each other. And they looked up their records and found
the same batch was used to vaccinate them. The procedure for that
batch had not been followed, some step was given too little time.

That doesn't mean records were not kept even when my mother was
vaccinated for smallpox, around 1914, but because of the polio
experience, the importance of keeping records was even more clear.

But it only matters if the vaccine is not working like usual, and
afaict, only a subset of web wackos are claiming it doesn't work well.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:09:22 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 9/21/2021 6:24 AM, Buck Fiden wrote:
>> On 9/20/21 11:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>> In article <i79ikgpnkbm7mkpv8cg0d1u3hvlml3ksdd@4ax.com>,
>>> gfretwell@aol.com says...
>>>> It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
>>>> people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
>>>> death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
>>>> make more sense than life insurance.
>>>> I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
>>>> and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
>>>> on company business.  When you are young that seems reasonable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
>>> any life insurance ?   Maybe enough for a funeral.
>>
>>
>> Local funeral home has a pre-paid pick up and cremate for about $3500
>> here. Probably not worth worth the typical insurance company hassle for
>> that little.
>>
> You can do it for about $1000 here.

Even with the higher price of gasoline,. why should it be more than
$5?
I told my people, call one of our friends with a backhoe and bury me
with the dogs.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 07:52:05 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:

>On 09/21/2021 07:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 9/21/2021 6:24 AM, Buck Fiden wrote:
>>> On 9/20/21 11:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>> In article <i79ikgpnkbm7mkpv8cg0d1u3hvlml3ksdd@4ax.com>,
>>>> gfretwell@aol.com says...
>>>>> It probably has more to do with how their death would impact other
>>>>> people. A young single person or even a DINK couple might decide their
>>>>> death might not impact anyone financially. Mortgage insurance might
>>>>> make more sense than life insurance.
>>>>> I know I did that myself but IBM was giving pretty good life insurance
>>>>> and a very significant accident policy if I died working or traveling
>>>>> on company business. When you are young that seems reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
>>>> any life insurance ? Maybe enough for a funeral.
>>>
>>>
>>> Local funeral home has a pre-paid pick up and cremate for about $3500
>>> here. Probably not worth worth the typical insurance company hassle
>>> for that little.
>>>
>> You can do it for about $1000 here.
>
>The local medical school will do it for free after they get through
>doing whatever they do with cadavers. The only catch is you can't also
>be an organ donor except for corneas.
>

I renewed the donor stamp on my DL but I doubt 75 year old parts are
in that great a demand.

On 9/21/2021 10:01 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 07:52:05 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>

>>>>> Yes, why should a single young person or even a single old person have
>>>>> any life insurance ? Maybe enough for a funeral.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Local funeral home has a pre-paid pick up and cremate for about $3500
>>>> here. Probably not worth worth the typical insurance company hassle
>>>> for that little.
>>>>
>>> You can do it for about $1000 here.
>>
>> The local medical school will do it for free after they get through
>> doing whatever they do with cadavers. The only catch is you can't also
>> be an organ donor except for corneas.
>>
>
> I renewed the donor stamp on my DL but I doubt 75 year old parts are
> in that great a demand.
>

Yes, I have one organ to donate the use of and the demand has decreased
considerably in recent years.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net>
wrote:

>On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 5:14:15 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Consider the fellow (I can't quite remember who it was) who lives in
>> Nevada and was here a year ago complaining that his ballot went astray.
>> I asked him what his local election board said when he asked them
>> directly. Crickets.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>
>I remember that. We haven't heard from him for so long, I can't remember
>his name anymore. He was a raging Trumpard, maybe he got locked up
>Jan 6 and is still in jail?

That's T, formerly known as Todd. He still posts in the Windows groups,
where he enlists help from others to solve his clients' computer issues.

On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 1:13:37 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 5:14:15 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Consider the fellow (I can't quite remember who it was) who lives in
> >> Nevada and was here a year ago complaining that his ballot went astray.
> >> I asked him what his local election board said when he asked them
> >> directly. Crickets.
> >>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
> >
> >I remember that. We haven't heard from him for so long, I can't remember
> >his name anymore. He was a raging Trumpard, maybe he got locked up
> >Jan 6 and is still in jail?
>
> That's T, formerly known as Todd. He still posts in the Windows groups,
> where he enlists help from others to solve his clients' computer issues.

I guess he just couldn't stand the truth here.

On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 07:11:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net>
wrote:

>On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 1:13:37 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 5:14:15 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> Consider the fellow (I can't quite remember who it was) who lives in
>> >> Nevada and was here a year ago complaining that his ballot went astray.
>> >> I asked him what his local election board said when he asked them
>> >> directly. Crickets.
>> >>
>> >> Cindy Hamilton
>> >
>> >I remember that. We haven't heard from him for so long, I can't remember
>> >his name anymore. He was a raging Trumpard, maybe he got locked up
>> >Jan 6 and is still in jail?
>>
>> That's T, formerly known as Todd. He still posts in the Windows groups,
>> where he enlists help from others to solve his clients' computer issues.
>
>I guess he just couldn't stand the truth here.

From what I hear, it's not easy being a snowflake. :-)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 22:33:50 -0500, Jim Joyce <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 07:11:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 1:13:37 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 <tra...@optonline.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 5:14:15 AM UTC-4, angelica...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >> Consider the fellow (I can't quite remember who it was) who lives in
>>> >> Nevada and was here a year ago complaining that his ballot went astray.
>>> >> I asked him what his local election board said when he asked them
>>> >> directly. Crickets.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cindy Hamilton
>>> >
>>> >I remember that. We haven't heard from him for so long, I can't remember
>>> >his name anymore. He was a raging Trumpard, maybe he got locked up
>>> >Jan 6 and is still in jail?
>>>
>>> That's T, formerly known as Todd. He still posts in the Windows groups,
>>> where he enlists help from others to solve his clients' computer issues.
>>
>>I guess he just couldn't stand the truth here.
>
>From what I hear, it's not easy being a snowflake. :-)
They say the only way to survive is to be "frozen" out - -