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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: absent

SubjectAuthor
* absentarthurvv vart
+- Re: absentPeter T. Daniels
+* Re: absentKen Blake
|`* Re: absentRichard Heathfield
| `* Re: absentKen Blake
|  `* Re: absentRichard Heathfield
|   `- Re: absentKen Blake
`- Re: absentDavid Kleinecke

1
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Subject: absent
From: arthurv...@gmail.com (arthurvv vart)
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 by: arthurvv vart - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:06 UTC

1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.

2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.

3) He said he spoke for the men absent.

Are the above sentences grammatical?

It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.

Gratefully,
Navi

Re: absent

<4f615e71-dc27-4c3f-9b0c-01720eab8733n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: absent
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 14:51 UTC

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 7:06:50 AM UTC-5, arthurvv vart wrote:

> 1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.
>
> 2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.
>
> 3) He said he spoke for the men absent.
>
> Are the above sentences grammatical?

If it's the early 17th century.

> It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.

Maybe not. Cf. "galore."

Re: absent

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: absent
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:08:12 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:08 UTC

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 04:06:46 -0800 (PST), arthurvv vart
<arthurvarr@gmail.com> wrote:

>1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.
>
>2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.
>
>3) He said he spoke for the men absent.
>
>Are the above sentences grammatical?

No.

>It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.

Adjectives in English normally precede the noun.

"He said he spoke for the absent men" would be OK.

Re: absent

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: absent
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:10:23 +0000
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:10 UTC

On 27/02/2022 4:08 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 04:06:46 -0800 (PST), arthurvv vart
> <arthurvarr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.
>>
>> 2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.
>>
>> 3) He said he spoke for the men absent.
>>
>> Are the above sentences grammatical?
>
>
> No.
>
>
>> It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.
>
>
> Adjectives in English normally precede the noun.
>
> "He said he spoke for the absent men" would be OK.

Our adjectives respectably retain
an independence worthy and germane
in English, oh so flexible and pert,
Grammatical stiff upper lips to subvert.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: absent

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Subject: Re: absent
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:35 UTC

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:10:23 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 27/02/2022 4:08 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 04:06:46 -0800 (PST), arthurvv vart
>> <arthurvarr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.
>>>
>>> 2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.
>>>
>>> 3) He said he spoke for the men absent.
>>>
>>> Are the above sentences grammatical?
>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>>
>>> It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.
>>
>>
>> Adjectives in English normally precede the noun.
>>
>> "He said he spoke for the absent men" would be OK.
>
>
>Our adjectives respectably retain
>an independence worthy and germane
>in English, oh so flexible and pert,
>Grammatical stiff upper lips to subvert.

Note that I said "normally," not "always." Moreover, poetry is often
very different from prose.

Re: absent

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Subject: Re: absent
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:42 UTC

On 27/02/2022 6:35 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:10:23 +0000, Richard Heathfield
> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 27/02/2022 4:08 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 04:06:46 -0800 (PST), arthurvv vart
>>> <arthurvarr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.
>>>>
>>>> 2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.
>>>>
>>>> 3) He said he spoke for the men absent.
>>>>
>>>> Are the above sentences grammatical?
>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>>
>>>> It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.
>>>
>>>
>>> Adjectives in English normally precede the noun.
>>>
>>> "He said he spoke for the absent men" would be OK.
>>
>>
>> Our adjectives respectably retain
>> an independence worthy and germane
>> in English, oh so flexible and pert,
>> Grammatical stiff upper lips to subvert.
>
>
>
> Note that I said "normally," not "always." Moreover, poetry is often
> very different from prose.

Oh, absolutely, my dear fellow. I wasn't actually trying to contradict
you as such. It's just that the muse prompted me all contrariwise, as is
sometimes her wont (compositional), and it occurred to me that I could
with very little effort show off a few cheeky counter-examples, that's
all. No harm done?

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: absent

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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:53 UTC

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:42:22 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 27/02/2022 6:35 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:10:23 +0000, Richard Heathfield
>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/02/2022 4:08 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 04:06:46 -0800 (PST), arthurvv vart
>>>> <arthurvarr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) He said he spoke for the men absent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are the above sentences grammatical?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adjectives in English normally precede the noun.
>>>>
>>>> "He said he spoke for the absent men" would be OK.
>>>
>>>
>>> Our adjectives respectably retain
>>> an independence worthy and germane
>>> in English, oh so flexible and pert,
>>> Grammatical stiff upper lips to subvert.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that I said "normally," not "always." Moreover, poetry is often
>> very different from prose.
>
>
>Oh, absolutely, my dear fellow. I wasn't actually trying to contradict
>you as such. It's just that the muse prompted me all contrariwise, as is
>sometimes her wont (compositional), and it occurred to me that I could
>with very little effort show off a few cheeky counter-examples, that's
>all. No harm done?

No, of course there was no harm done.

Re: absent

<dfa72cd6-fa74-4a6b-80c3-74567ea925f1n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: absent
From: dkleine...@gmail.com (David Kleinecke)
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 by: David Kleinecke - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:20 UTC

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 4:06:50 AM UTC-8, arthurvv vart wrote:
> 1) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others absent.
>
> 2) He said he spoke for those who had gone abroad for work and the others temporarily absent.
>
> 3) He said he spoke for the men absent.
>
> Are the above sentences grammatical?
>
> It seems to me that 'absent' as an adjective is a bit strange. It can be postposed. Maybe because 'absentness' is a temporary quality.
>

I would hear that sentence as a elision - " the others [who were [also?] absent]"

Hence grammatical.

interests / alt.usage.english / Re: absent

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