I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.

Perhaps as a result of his year-by-year successes, Loder's stable always, it was well-known in the racing world, attracted as owners serious gamblers whose satisfaction was more in winning money than in winning races: and that wasn't the truism it seemed, because in steeplechasing the owners tended to want to win the races more than the money.
Steeplechasing owners only occasionally made a profit overall and realistically expected to have to pay for their pleasure.
("The Edge" by Dick Francis)

context (or situation): 1) Loder is a horse trainer.
2) Many more horse owners rallied around Loder's stable, since interested in gambling.

question: about "that wasn't the truism it seemed", particularly it's hard to get the usage of "it seemed" here.
I guess it means from context: Although it seemed true that ,in general, owners were concerned with betting money on horses, that wasn't true. Loder's case was exceptional.
If so, the phrase would be understood as: "that wasn't the truism (which) it seemed", and "that" and "it" indicates the same thing.

On 14/02/2022 6:52 am, tonbei wrote:
> I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>
> Perhaps as a result of his year-by-year successes, Loder's stable always, it was well-known in the racing world, attracted as owners serious gamblers whose satisfaction was more in winning money than in winning races: and that wasn't the truism it seemed, because in steeplechasing the owners tended to want to win the races more than the money.
> Steeplechasing owners only occasionally made a profit overall and realistically expected to have to pay for their pleasure.
> ("The Edge" by Dick Francis)
>
> context (or situation): 1) Loder is a horse trainer.
> 2) Many more horse owners rallied around Loder's stable, since interested in gambling.
>
> question: about "that wasn't the truism it seemed", particularly it's hard to get the usage of "it seemed" here.
> I guess it means from context: Although it seemed true that ,in general, owners were concerned with betting money on horses, that wasn't true. Loder's case was exceptional.
> If so, the phrase would be understood as: "that wasn't the truism (which) it seemed", and "that" and "it" indicates the same thing.

In short and in general, it means that hobbies cost money, and even
those hobbies that have the potential in theory to pay for themselves in
practice don't.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

2022年2月14日月曜日 17:12:27 UTC+9 Richard Heathfield:
> On 14/02/2022 6:52 am, tonbei wrote:
> > I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
> >
> > Perhaps as a result of his year-by-year successes, Loder's stable always, it was well-known in the racing world, attracted as owners serious gamblers whose satisfaction was more in winning money than in winning races: and that wasn't the truism it seemed, because in steeplechasing the owners tended to want to win the races more than the money.
> > Steeplechasing owners only occasionally made a profit overall and realistically expected to have to pay for their pleasure.
> > ("The Edge" by Dick Francis)
> >
> > context (or situation): 1) Loder is a horse trainer.
> > 2) Many more horse owners rallied around Loder's stable, since interested in gambling.
> >
> > question: about "that wasn't the truism it seemed", particularly it's hard to get the usage of "it seemed" here.
> > I guess it means from context: Although it seemed true that ,in general, owners were concerned with betting money on horses, that wasn't true. Loder's case was exceptional.
> > If so, the phrase would be understood as: "that wasn't the truism (which) it seemed", and "that" and "it" indicates the same thing.
> In short and in general, it means that hobbies cost money, and even
> those hobbies that have the potential in theory to pay for themselves in
> practice don't.
>
> --
> Richard Heathfield
> Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

I'm afraid my question might have been not so clear.
The point of the question is about a certain way of expression.

There's a example sentence I've made just now

He was not in happiness he seemed. (I think to mean by it: although he seemed happy, he wasn't it actially.

Is this expression valid?

On 14/02/2022 10:46 am, tonbei wrote:
>
> I'm afraid my question might have been not so clear.
> The point of the question is about a certain way of expression.
>
> There's a example sentence I've made just now
>
> He was not in happiness he seemed. (I think to mean by it: although he seemed happy, he wasn't it actially.
>
> Is this expression valid?

No, but this one is:

He was not as happy as he seemed.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

2022年2月14日月曜日 20:11:23 UTC+9 Richard Heathfield:
> On 14/02/2022 10:46 am, tonbei wrote:
> >
> > I'm afraid my question might have been not so clear.
> > The point of the question is about a certain way of expression.
> >
> > There's a example sentence I've made just now
> >
> > He was not in happiness he seemed. (I think to mean by it: although he seemed happy, he wasn't it actially.
> >
> > Is this expression valid?
> No, but this one is:
>
> He was not as happy as he seemed.
> --
> Richard Heathfield
> Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

I still remain not clear, so let me repeat the question differently.

1) that wasn't the truism it seemed.
2) He was not in happiness he seemed.

Are both the sentences of the same sentence construction. if 2) could make sense as a sentence at least?

If 2) which I composed doesn't make sense, 1) also seems to make no sense.

On 14/02/2022 1:25 pm, tonbei wrote:
> 2022年2月14日月曜日 20:11:23 UTC+9 Richard Heathfield:
>> On 14/02/2022 10:46 am, tonbei wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm afraid my question might have been not so clear.
>>> The point of the question is about a certain way of expression.
>>>
>>> There's a example sentence I've made just now
>>>
>>> He was not in happiness he seemed. (I think to mean by it: although he seemed happy, he wasn't it actially.
>>>
>>> Is this expression valid?
>> No, but this one is:
>>
>> He was not as happy as he seemed.
>
> I still remain not clear, so let me repeat the question differently.
>
> 1) that wasn't the truism it seemed.
> 2) He was not in happiness he seemed.
>
> Are both the sentences of the same sentence construction.

No.

> if 2) could make sense as a sentence at least?

No.

>
> If 2) which I composed doesn't make sense, 1) also seems to make no sense.

The first is good English. The second is not.

"is in happiness" is not idiomatic;
"is not in happiness" is not idiomatic;
"was not in happiness" is not idiomatic. They are constructions that
will mark you out as a non-native speaker.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 2/14/2022 1:52 AM, tonbei wrote:

> I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.

> Perhaps as a result of his year-by-year successes, Loder's stable
> always, it was well-known in the racing world, attracted as owners
> serious gamblers whose satisfaction was more in winning money than in
> winning races: and that wasn't the truism it seemed, because in
> steeplechasing the owners tended to want to win the races more than
> the money. Steeplechasing owners only occasionally made a profit
> overall and realistically expected to have to pay for their
> pleasure. ("The Edge" by Dick Francis)

> context (or situation): 1) Loder is a horse trainer. 2) Many more
> horse owners rallied around Loder's stable, since interested in
> gambling.

> question: about "that wasn't the truism it seemed", particularly it's
> hard to get the usage of "it seemed" here. I guess it means from
> context: Although it seemed true that ,in general, owners were
> concerned with betting money on horses, that wasn't true. Loder's
> case was exceptional. If so, the phrase would be understood as: "that
> wasn't the truism (which) it seemed", and "that" and "it" indicates
> the same thing.

A "truism" is a statement of obvious fact.

It seemed obvious that the owners of racing-horses would be mostly
interested in winning money from their races, and therefore to say so
seemed to be a truism.

Saying so was not the truism it seemed to be, however, because there was
an important exception to that statement in the case of steeplechasing
owners, who were more interested in winning races than in making a profit.

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 5:46:20 AM UTC-5, tonbei wrote:

> I'm afraid my question might have been not so clear.
> The point of the question is about a certain way of expression.
>
> There's a example sentence I've made just now
>
> He was not in happiness he seemed. (I think to mean by it: although he seemed happy, he wasn't it actially.
>
> Is this expression valid?

No idea what is intended.

What you are missing is that "truism" is a separate word that
got decoupled from "true" or "truth" long ago. A truism is
simply a rather banal statement or belief (that is obviously
true and not worth mentioning). In this case, that racehorse
owners want their horses to make money for them (and that
they do so by winning races is of secondary interest). But the
narrator is claiming that some owners actually do care more
about winning than profiting, and that may seem counterintuitive.

* tonbei:

> 2022年2月14日月曜日 20:11:23 UTC+9 Richard Heathfield:
>> On 14/02/2022 10:46 am, tonbei wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm afraid my question might have been not so clear.
>>> The point of the question is about a certain way of expression.
>>>
>>> There's a example sentence I've made just now
>>>
>>> He was not in happiness he seemed. (I think to mean by it: although he seemed happy, he wasn't it actially.
>>>
>>> Is this expression valid?
>> No, but this one is:
>>
>> He was not as happy as he seemed.
>> --
>> Richard Heathfield
>> Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
>> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
>> Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
>
> I still remain not clear, so let me repeat the question differently.
>
> 1) that wasn't the truism it seemed.

It seemed to be a truism, but it wasn't.

> 2) He was not in happiness he seemed.

Stay with noun phrases for now.

2) He was not the happy person he seemed.

He seemed to be a happy person, but he wasn't.

--
Some things are taken away from you, some you leave behind-and
some you carry with you, world without end.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.31

On 2/14/2022 8:25 AM, tonbei wrote:
> 2022年2月14日月曜日 20:11:23 UTC+9 Richard Heathfield:
>> On 14/02/2022 10:46 am, tonbei wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm afraid my question might have been not so clear.
>>> The point of the question is about a certain way of expression.
>>>
>>> There's a example sentence I've made just now
>>>
>>> He was not in happiness he seemed. (I think to mean by it: although he seemed happy, he wasn't it actially.
>>>
>>> Is this expression valid?
>> No, but this one is:
>>
>> He was not as happy as he seemed.
>> --
>> Richard Heathfield
>> Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
>> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
>> Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
>
> I still remain not clear, so let me repeat the question differently.
>
> 1) that wasn't the truism it seemed.
> 2) He was not in happiness he seemed.
>
> Are both the sentences of the same sentence construction. if 2) could make sense as a sentence at least?
>
> If 2) which I composed doesn't make sense, 1) also seems to make no sense.

Truism = something that is always true
Not a truism = not always true
Not the truism that it seemed =
not always true even though it seemed that way

--
Tak
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