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interests / soc.culture.china / Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]

SubjectAuthor
* The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soonltlee1
+- Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soonstoney
`* Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]A. Filip
 `* Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]ltlee1
  `* Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]ltlee1
   `- Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]ltlee1

1
The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon

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Subject: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon
From: ltl...@hotmail.com (ltlee1)
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 by: ltlee1 - Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:03 UTC

A prognosis on the Russo-Ukrainian conflict with a time frame of a few months. With three points:
1. Ukraine either cannot or will not fight Russia without continuous and sizable US support.
2. Funding would be more difficult with Republicans more powerful because
a) they want to investigate Biden and his as well as his son's
dealing with Ukraine. For example, they would like to know "how Biden facilitated the trade in American weapons in "black markets" of Eastern Europe and the Middle East."
b) US support so far does not have grass root support.
Only "one percent of Americans consider assistance to Ukraine to be relevant."

3. US political system falling apart
"It is no coincidence that Biden has called the Republicans semi-fascists recently. He is looking for an internal enemy in the face of the Trumpists in order to rally his supporters on this ground.

In his speech on September 2, Joe Biden de facto declared war on the Trumpists and their supporters under the slogans of the need to defend democracy. By doing this, Biden accelerated the decline of the US political system."

See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/153979-usa_ukraine_war/

Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon

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Subject: Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon
From: papajoe...@yahoo.com (stoney)
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 by: stoney - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 09:55 UTC

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 7:03:18 PM UTC+8, ltlee1 wrote:
> A prognosis on the Russo-Ukrainian conflict with a time frame of a few months. With three points:
> 1. Ukraine either cannot or will not fight Russia without continuous and sizable US support.
> 2. Funding would be more difficult with Republicans more powerful because
> a) they want to investigate Biden and his as well as his son's
> dealing with Ukraine. For example, they would like to know "how Biden facilitated the trade in American weapons in "black markets" of Eastern Europe and the Middle East."
> b) US support so far does not have grass root support.
> Only "one percent of Americans consider assistance to Ukraine to be relevant."
>
> 3. US political system falling apart
> "It is no coincidence that Biden has called the Republicans semi-fascists recently. He is looking for an internal enemy in the face of the Trumpists in order to rally his supporters on this ground.
>
> In his speech on September 2, Joe Biden de facto declared war on the Trumpists and their supporters under the slogans of the need to defend democracy. By doing this, Biden accelerated the decline of the US political system."
>
> See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/153979-usa_ukraine_war/

Biden spent more than 8 billions in supplying of weapons to Ukraine to fight Russia. He is like all previous presidents in always doing war attacks and war supply supports to show his American people that he is not a coward and he is not a rubbish president, too. US paid their media to write bad about other countries. They faked stories and conjured their own kinds of concoctions to drive consensus among their own gangsters of countries to work against China, Russia and others that are not subdued by them. Not only Ukraine but US and allies are soon not to be relevant too the world.

Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]

<anfi+ftp0bbx32f-m9h6@wp.eu>

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From: anf...@wp.eu (A. Filip)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:16:06 +0200
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 by: A. Filip - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 10:16 UTC

ltlee1 <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> […]
> 2. Funding would be more difficult with Republicans more powerful because
> a) they want to investigate Biden and his as well as his son's
> dealing with Ukraine. For example, they would like to know "how Biden
> facilitated the trade in American weapons in "black markets" of
> Eastern Europe and the Middle East."
> b) US support so far does not have grass root support.
> Only "one percent of Americans consider assistance to Ukraine to be relevant."
> […]
> See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/153979-usa_ukraine_war/

IMHO it is possible but unlikely+ *soon*.
I looks like in big part wishful thinking by pravda.RU.

Sacrificing Ukraine at Russian altar *without profit* can make the issue
important for US voters. So *fast* changes are unlikely IMHO.
I expect US support for Ukraine to be stable at least up to summer
2023. but it may turn out to be "insufficient" anyway,

--
A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
| An expert is a person who avoids the small errors as he sweeps on
| to the grand fallacy. (Benjamin Stolberg)

Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]

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Subject: Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]
From: ltl...@hotmail.com (ltlee1)
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 by: ltlee1 - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 14:33 UTC

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:16:54 AM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > […]
> > 2. Funding would be more difficult with Republicans more powerful because
> > a) they want to investigate Biden and his as well as his son's
> > dealing with Ukraine. For example, they would like to know "how Biden
> > facilitated the trade in American weapons in "black markets" of
> > Eastern Europe and the Middle East."
> > b) US support so far does not have grass root support.
> > Only "one percent of Americans consider assistance to Ukraine to be relevant."
> > […]
> > See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/153979-usa_ukraine_war/
> IMHO it is possible but unlikely+ *soon*.

Au Contrarie. I will give the *soon* a pass. It depends on how successful is
Zelenskyy's near term offensive and whether it can be sustained.

But long term is a different story. Geopolitics is then likely to take priority over
shorter term domestic partisan politics. As reported previously, the US does not
mind a badly damaged Russia. But low level instability between Russia and other
European nations is not necessarily a bad thing from the US point of view. It
certainly would make the NATO continue to be relevant.

> I looks like in big part wishful thinking by pravda.RU.
>
> Sacrificing Ukraine at Russian altar *without profit* can make the issue
> important for US voters. So *fast* changes are unlikely IMHO.
> I expect US support for Ukraine to be stable at least up to summer
> 2023. but it may turn out to be "insufficient" anyway,

Sacrificing Ukraine, not just at Russian altar, but also for some EU member
nations' sake. Concerning US voters, it should be first and foremost a
European concern. US voters have many urgent needs themselves.

>
> --
> A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
> | An expert is a person who avoids the small errors as he sweeps on
> | to the grand fallacy. (Benjamin Stolberg)

Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]

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Subject: Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]
From: ltl...@hotmail.com (ltlee1)
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 by: ltlee1 - Mon, 19 Sep 2022 18:39 UTC

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 2:33:50 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:16:54 AM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
> > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > […]
> > > 2. Funding would be more difficult with Republicans more powerful because
> > > a) they want to investigate Biden and his as well as his son's
> > > dealing with Ukraine. For example, they would like to know "how Biden
> > > facilitated the trade in American weapons in "black markets" of
> > > Eastern Europe and the Middle East."
> > > b) US support so far does not have grass root support.
> > > Only "one percent of Americans consider assistance to Ukraine to be relevant."
> > > […]
> > > See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/153979-usa_ukraine_war/
> > IMHO it is possible but unlikely+ *soon*.
> Au Contrarie. I will give the *soon* a pass. It depends on how successful is
> Zelenskyy's near term offensive and whether it can be sustained.
>
> But long term is a different story. Geopolitics is then likely to take priority over
> shorter term domestic partisan politics. As reported previously, the US does not
> mind a badly damaged Russia. But low level instability between Russia and other
> European nations is not necessarily a bad thing from the US point of view.. It
> certainly would make the NATO continue to be relevant.
> > I looks like in big part wishful thinking by pravda.RU.
> >
> > Sacrificing Ukraine at Russian altar *without profit* can make the issue
> > important for US voters. So *fast* changes are unlikely IMHO.
> > I expect US support for Ukraine to be stable at least up to summer
> > 2023. but it may turn out to be "insufficient" anyway,
> Sacrificing Ukraine, not just at Russian altar, but also for some EU member
> nations' sake. Concerning US voters, it should be first and foremost a
> European concern. US voters have many urgent needs themselves.

"Recent surveys conducted by YouGov in connection with Concerned Veterans for America (CVA)
asked 1000 American adults a series of questions on America’s current policy vis-à-vis Ukraine
and the Russian invasion. While Americans remain supportive of efforts to economically and
financially punish Russia for the invasion of its western neighbor, a plurality of respondents said
the United States should not put boots on the ground to assist the Ukrainians. The survey also
shows the American people, when given information about America’s pre-existing commitments
to Ukraine, believe the U.S. should rein in its military assistance for the Ukrainians to be in line
with wealthy European nations.

Of those surveyed from Sept. 9 through Sept. 12, 48 percent opposed “sending US troops to Ukraine
to help the Ukrainian government defend itself against Russia,” while only 20 percent were in favor.
Another 31 percent neither supported nor opposed such a move. A survey conducted from Sept. 1
through Sept. 6 by YouGov and CVA also found broad opposition to “direct combat for US troops in
the Russia-Ukraine War.” Forty percent of respondents were strongly opposed and another 17 percent
were somewhat opposed. More respondents were "somewhat opposed" to direct combat involvement
by U.S. troops than "somewhat supported" (10 percent) or "strongly supported" (4 percent) U.S. troops’
involvement. Just under a fifth of respondents (18 percent) were neutral on the question."

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/new-americans-opposed-to-boots-on-the-ground-in-ukraine-new-poll-finds/
> >
> > --
> > A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
> > | An expert is a person who avoids the small errors as he sweeps on
> > | to the grand fallacy. (Benjamin Stolberg)

Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]

<9b284ffc-4d4f-4f81-ab2f-8388db643ddan@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: The clock is ticking: USA will forget about Ukraine very soon [pravda.ru]
From: ltl...@hotmail.com (ltlee1)
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 by: ltlee1 - Sat, 29 Oct 2022 14:28 UTC

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 6:39:16 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 2:33:50 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 10:16:54 AM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
> > > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > […]
> > > > 2. Funding would be more difficult with Republicans more powerful because
> > > > a) they want to investigate Biden and his as well as his son's
> > > > dealing with Ukraine. For example, they would like to know "how Biden
> > > > facilitated the trade in American weapons in "black markets" of
> > > > Eastern Europe and the Middle East."
> > > > b) US support so far does not have grass root support.
> > > > Only "one percent of Americans consider assistance to Ukraine to be relevant."
> > > > […]
> > > > See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/153979-usa_ukraine_war/
> > > IMHO it is possible but unlikely+ *soon*.
> > Au Contrarie. I will give the *soon* a pass. It depends on how successful is
> > Zelenskyy's near term offensive and whether it can be sustained.
> >
> > But long term is a different story. Geopolitics is then likely to take priority over
> > shorter term domestic partisan politics. As reported previously, the US does not
> > mind a badly damaged Russia. But low level instability between Russia and other
> > European nations is not necessarily a bad thing from the US point of view. It
> > certainly would make the NATO continue to be relevant.
> > > I looks like in big part wishful thinking by pravda.RU.
> > >
> > > Sacrificing Ukraine at Russian altar *without profit* can make the issue
> > > important for US voters. So *fast* changes are unlikely IMHO.
> > > I expect US support for Ukraine to be stable at least up to summer
> > > 2023. but it may turn out to be "insufficient" anyway,
> > Sacrificing Ukraine, not just at Russian altar, but also for some EU member
> > nations' sake. Concerning US voters, it should be first and foremost a
> > European concern. US voters have many urgent needs themselves.
> "Recent surveys conducted by YouGov in connection with Concerned Veterans for America (CVA)
> asked 1000 American adults a series of questions on America’s current policy vis-à-vis Ukraine
> and the Russian invasion. While Americans remain supportive of efforts to economically and
> financially punish Russia for the invasion of its western neighbor, a plurality of respondents said
> the United States should not put boots on the ground to assist the Ukrainians. The survey also
> shows the American people, when given information about America’s pre-existing commitments
> to Ukraine, believe the U.S. should rein in its military assistance for the Ukrainians to be in line
> with wealthy European nations.
>
> Of those surveyed from Sept. 9 through Sept. 12, 48 percent opposed “sending US troops to Ukraine
> to help the Ukrainian government defend itself against Russia,” while only 20 percent were in favor.
> Another 31 percent neither supported nor opposed such a move. A survey conducted from Sept. 1
> through Sept. 6 by YouGov and CVA also found broad opposition to “direct combat for US troops in
> the Russia-Ukraine War.” Forty percent of respondents were strongly opposed and another 17 percent
> were somewhat opposed. More respondents were "somewhat opposed" to direct combat involvement
> by U.S. troops than "somewhat supported" (10 percent) or "strongly supported" (4 percent) U.S. troops’
> involvement. Just under a fifth of respondents (18 percent) were neutral on the question."
>
> https://www.theamericanconservative.com/new-americans-opposed-to-boots-on-the-ground-in-ukraine-new-poll-finds/
> > >

"A group of 30 liberal Democratic representatives urged President Joe Biden to pursue
negotiations with Russia to end the war in Ukraine, in the first sign of disagreement in
the party over the White House's strategy.

In a letter to Biden, the lawmakers, led by Washington Rep. Pramila Jayapal, said that
direct negotiations with Russia should be opened in order to avoid prolonging the war
even further.

"Given the destruction created by this war for Ukraine and the world, as well as the risk
of catastrophic escalation, we also believe it is in the interests of Ukraine, the United
States, and the world to avoid a prolonged conflict," the members of the House of
Representatives wrote.

"For this reason, we urge you to pair the military and economic support the United States
has provided to Ukraine with a proactive diplomatic push, redoubling efforts to seek a
realistic framework for a ceasefire," the letter said.

The recommendation of seeking a ceasefire contradicts the current US strategy of arming
Ukraine and saying publicly that Kyiv must be in charge of when and how to seek negotiations.

Ukrainian officials have repeatedly rejected the idea of peace talks with Russia. Last month,
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Russia's attempts to annex Ukrainian land meant
there was "nothing to talk about" so long as Russia's President Vladimir Putin remained in
power.

The Republicans, who have a powerful isolationist wing, may win back control of the House
in the November 8 midterms, complicating the picture for sending US aid to Ukraine."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/30-house-democrats-urged-biden-111846076.html

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