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interests / alt.usage.english / What does presently mean currently in UK English?

What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: ranjit_m...@yahoo.com (Dingbat)
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by: Dingbat - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 00:17 UTC

Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/

I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:

The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: lar3r...@gmail.com (lar3ryca)
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by: lar3ryca - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 05:09 UTC

On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
>
> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
>
> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
>
> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.

You were taught incorrectly.

Presently: Soon
He will be home presently.

Presently: At this time.
He is presently at home

The dictionary is your friend.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<mn.78457e61374027f5.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
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by: Snidely - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:09 UTC

lar3ryca blurted out:
> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
>> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
>>
>> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by
>> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
>> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
>> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
>>
>> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
>>
>> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
>
> You were taught incorrectly.
>
> Presently: Soon
> He will be home presently.
>
> Presently: At this time.
> He is presently at home
>
> The dictionary is your friend.

AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.

/dps

--
You could try being nicer and politer
> instead, and see how that works out.
-- Katy Jennison

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<sru3fr$1v9h$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
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by: Hibou - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:17 UTC

Le 15/01/2022 à 00:17, Dingbat a écrit :
>
> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
>
> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
>
> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
>
> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.

To me, English, 'presently' means 'soon', but I think the sense 'now'
may be more current in Scotland.

The two can be reconciled by thinking of 'presently' as meaning 'in the
vicinity of the present', but it is better to use it in one sense or the
other, not both.

There is an interesting usage note here:

<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/presently>:

"The two apparently contradictory meanings of presently, 'in a little
while, soon' and 'at the present time, now,' are both old in the
language. In the latter meaning presently dates back to the 15th
century. It is currently in standard use in all varieties of speech and
writing in both Great Britain and the United States. The sense 'soon'
arose gradually during the 16th century...."

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<b551dfcb-368f-42c2-af53-76ab600a94dbn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: ranjit_m...@yahoo.com (Dingbat)
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by: Dingbat - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:27 UTC

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
> lar3ryca blurted out:
> > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
> >>
> >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by
> >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
> >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
> >>
> >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
> >>
> >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
> >
> > You were taught incorrectly.
> >
> > Presently: Soon
> > He will be home presently.
> >
> > Presently: At this time.
> > He is presently at home
> >
> > The dictionary is your friend.
> AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
>
>
.... but it was UK English I was asking about.
I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:23 UTC

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 12:09:56 AM UTC-5, lar3...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:

> > Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
> >
> > This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> > https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
> >
> > I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
> >
> > The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
> You were taught incorrectly.
>
> Presently: Soon
> He will be home presently.
>
> Presently: At this time.
> He is presently at home
>
> The dictionary is your friend.

Judging from reactions here in past years, it's Pondian.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<1bf9ing9tp550.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>

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by: Quinn C - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:43 UTC

* Hibou:

> Le 15/01/2022 à 00:17, Dingbat a écrit :
>>
>> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
>>
>> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
>> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
>>
>> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
>>
>> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
>
> To me, English, 'presently' means 'soon', but I think the sense 'now'
> may be more current in Scotland.
>
> The two can be reconciled by thinking of 'presently' as meaning 'in the
> vicinity of the present', but it is better to use it in one sense or the
> other, not both.
>
> There is an interesting usage note here:
>
> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/presently>:
>
> "The two apparently contradictory meanings of presently, 'in a little
> while, soon' and 'at the present time, now,' are both old in the
> language. In the latter meaning presently dates back to the 15th
> century. It is currently in standard use in all varieties of speech and
> writing in both Great Britain and the United States. The sense 'soon'
> arose gradually during the 16th century...."

I find it likely that "presently" to mean "soon" was a euphemism at
first - it's going to be so soon, it's practically no wait at all!

--
Kira: Any luck?
Garak: Plenty, major. Unfortunately, all of it bad.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<hlabadie-9933ED.14531615012022@aioe.org>

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by: Horace LaBadie - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 19:53 UTC

In article <b551dfcb-368f-42c2-af53-76ab600a94dbn@googlegroups.com>,
Dingbat <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
> > lar3ryca blurted out:
> > > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> > >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
> > >>
> > >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased
> > >> by
> > >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her
> > >> descendants
> > >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> > >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
> > >>
> > >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
> > >>
> > >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
> > >
> > > You were taught incorrectly.
> > >
> > > Presently: Soon
> > > He will be home presently.
> > >
> > > Presently: At this time.
> > > He is presently at home
> > >
> > > The dictionary is your friend.
> > AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
> >
> >
> ... but it was UK English I was asking about.
> I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.

Tangentially, you will note that "Forbidden Island" is in quotation
marls. Niihau is not actually forbidden, only restricted to visitors
transported there by tour companies operated by residents of the island.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: lar3r...@gmail.com (lar3ryca)
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by: lar3ryca - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:37 UTC

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 4:27:35 AM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
> > lar3ryca blurted out:
> > > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> > >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
> > >>
> > >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by
> > >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
> > >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> > >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
> > >>
> > >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
> > >>
> > >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
> > >
> > > You were taught incorrectly.
> > >
> > > Presently: Soon
> > > He will be home presently.
> > >
> > > Presently: At this time.
> > > He is presently at home
> > >
> > > The dictionary is your friend.
> > AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
> >
> >
> ... but it was UK English I was asking about.
> I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.

OK, but I had no idea what 'presently' means in US English.
In Canada, I hear it both ways.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<bhf6ug9bihd1fart38tvjfmus1ap3vq1gi@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:40:52 -0500
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by: Tony Cooper - Sat, 15 Jan 2022 21:40 UTC

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 12:37:16 -0800 (PST), lar3ryca
<lar3ryca@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 4:27:35 AM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
>> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
>> > lar3ryca blurted out:
>> > > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
>> > >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
>> > >>
>> > >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed Forbidden Island, was purchased by
>> > >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
>> > >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
>> > >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
>> > >>
>> > >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
>> > >>
>> > >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
>> > >
>> > > You were taught incorrectly.
>> > >
>> > > Presently: Soon
>> > > He will be home presently.
>> > >
>> > > Presently: At this time.
>> > > He is presently at home
>> > >
>> > > The dictionary is your friend.
>> > AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
>> >
>> >
>> ... but it was UK English I was asking about.
>> I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.
>
>OK, but I had no idea what 'presently' means in US English.
>In Canada, I hear it both ways.

The examples do not indicate that the word "presently" means"soon" or
"currently". The context determines that.

"He is presently at home" means "currently" because it follows "is".

"He will be home presently" because it follows "will be".

Therefore, in the US, you can hear it used for both meanings.
--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: ranjit_m...@yahoo.com (Dingbat)
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by: Dingbat - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 00:04 UTC

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:40:58 PM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 12:37:16 -0800 (PST), lar3ryca
> <lar3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 4:27:35 AM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> >> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
> >> > lar3ryca blurted out:
> >> > > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> >> > >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by
> >> > >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
> >> > >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> >> > >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
> >> > >
> >> > > You were taught incorrectly.
> >> > >
> >> > > Presently: Soon
> >> > > He will be home presently.
> >> > >
> >> > > Presently: At this time.
> >> > > He is presently at home
> >> > >
> >> > > The dictionary is your friend.
> >> > AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ... but it was UK English I was asking about.
> >> I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.
> >
> >OK, but I had no idea what 'presently' means in US English.
> >In Canada, I hear it both ways.
> The examples do not indicate that the word "presently" means"soon" or
> "currently". The context determines that.
>
>
> "He is presently at home" means "currently" because it follows "is".
>
If an editor asked you to change presently to currently,
in such contexts, would you object? I wasn't in a position to
so object since I'd lose points for using Presently to mean
Currently in an English composition.
>
> "He will be home presently" because it follows "will be".
>
> Therefore, in the US, you can hear it used for both meanings.
> --

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<9er6ug5817rh28v98l4pe21cgs06sg8khk@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:02:39 -0500
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by: Tony Cooper - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:02 UTC

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:04:48 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
<ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:40:58 PM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 12:37:16 -0800 (PST), lar3ryca
>> <lar3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 4:27:35 AM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
>> >> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
>> >> > lar3ryca blurted out:
>> >> > > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
>> >> > >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed Forbidden Island, was purchased by
>> >> > >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
>> >> > >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
>> >> > >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > You were taught incorrectly.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Presently: Soon
>> >> > > He will be home presently.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Presently: At this time.
>> >> > > He is presently at home
>> >> > >
>> >> > > The dictionary is your friend.
>> >> > AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> ... but it was UK English I was asking about.
>> >> I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.
>> >
>> >OK, but I had no idea what 'presently' means in US English.
>> >In Canada, I hear it both ways.
>> The examples do not indicate that the word "presently" means"soon" or
>> "currently". The context determines that.
>>
>>
>> "He is presently at home" means "currently" because it follows "is".
>>
>If an editor asked you to change presently to currently,
>in such contexts, would you object? I wasn't in a position to
>so object since I'd lose points for using Presently to mean
>Currently in an English composition.
>>
>> "He will be home presently" because it follows "will be".
>>
>> Therefore, in the US, you can hear it used for both meanings.
>> --

No, I wouldn't object. I would, however, think the editor was
changing things just to change things and establishing his position as
editor.

There is a slight difference. "Presently" means "at this time".
"Currently" means "at this time" but hints that he won't be at home
for long.

I don't think it's big deal either way, though.

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 05:50:59 +0000
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by: Hibou - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 05:50 UTC

Le 15/01/2022 à 16:43, Quinn C a écrit :
> * Hibou:
>>
>> There is an interesting usage note here:
>>
>> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/presently>:
>>
>> "The two apparently contradictory meanings of presently, 'in a little
>> while, soon' and 'at the present time, now,' are both old in the
>> language. In the latter meaning presently dates back to the 15th
>> century. It is currently in standard use in all varieties of speech and
>> writing in both Great Britain and the United States. The sense 'soon'
>> arose gradually during the 16th century...."
>
> I find it likely that "presently" to mean "soon" was a euphemism at
> first - it's going to be so soon, it's practically no wait at all!

Do you have any evidence for that conjecture?

The OED is interesting:

"[Sense] 1.b. In a little while, before long, soon. / Now the usual
sense. / The development of this sense from 1.a. was so imperceptible
that early examples, esp. before c1650, are dubious."

"[Sense] 2.a. At the present time; at this time, at present, now. /
Apparently avoided in literary use between the 17th and 20th centuries,
but in regular use in most English dialects and by Scottish writers;
revived in the 20th cent. in the U.S., subsequently in Britain and
elsewhere. Regarded by some usage writers, esp. after the mid 20th
cent., as erroneous or ambiguous."

Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:

"... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary English
since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English dialects and
common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a vigorous revival,
though whether for any better reason than *novelty hunting* may be
doubted, seeing that we have available for the same purpose not only
/now/ but also for those who dislike monosyllables /at present/ and
/currently/."

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<ss0cm1$lq3$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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by: Hibou - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 06:06 UTC

Le 16/01/2022 à 05:50, Hibou a écrit :
>
> Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:
>
> "... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary English
> since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English dialects and
> common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a vigorous revival,
> though whether for any better reason than *novelty hunting* may be
> doubted, seeing that we have available for the same purpose not only
> /now/ but also for those who dislike monosyllables /at present/ and
> /currently/."

For those who loathe concision, we also have "at this moment in time."

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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by: bil...@shaw.ca - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:55 UTC

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:40:58 PM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 12:37:16 -0800 (PST), lar3ryca
> <lar3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 4:27:35 AM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> >> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
> >> > lar3ryca blurted out:
> >> > > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> >> > >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by
> >> > >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
> >> > >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> >> > >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled.
> >> > >
> >> > > You were taught incorrectly.
> >> > >
> >> > > Presently: Soon
> >> > > He will be home presently.
> >> > >
> >> > > Presently: At this time.
> >> > > He is presently at home
> >> > >
> >> > > The dictionary is your friend.
> >> > AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ... but it was UK English I was asking about.
> >> I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.
> >
> >OK, but I had no idea what 'presently' means in US English.
> >In Canada, I hear it both ways.
> The examples do not indicate that the word "presently" means"soon" or
> "currently". The context determines that.
>
> "He is presently at home" means "currently" because it follows "is".
>
> "He will be home presently" because it follows "will be".
>
> Therefore, in the US, you can hear it used for both meanings.

I avoid all uses of presently because they have become ambiguous .
If I mean soon, I say soon rather than presently. If I mean now, I say now,
rather than currently.

bill

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<ss18m2$1484$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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by: CDB - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 14:04 UTC

On 1/16/2022 12:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
> Quinn C a écrit :
>> * Hibou:

>>> There is an interesting usage note here:

>>> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/presently>:

>>> "The two apparently contradictory meanings of presently, 'in a
>>> little while, soon' and 'at the present time, now,' are both old
>>> in the language. In the latter meaning presently dates back to
>>> the 15th century. It is currently in standard use in all
>>> varieties of speech and writing in both Great Britain and the
>>> United States. The sense 'soon' arose gradually during the 16th
>>> century...."

>> I find it likely that "presently" to mean "soon" was a euphemism
>> at first - it's going to be so soon, it's practically no wait at
>> all!

> Do you have any evidence for that conjecture?

> The OED is interesting:

> "[Sense] 1.b. In a little while, before long, soon. / Now the usual
> sense. / The development of this sense from 1.a. was so imperceptible
> that early examples, esp. before c1650, are dubious."

> "[Sense] 2.a. At the present time; at this time, at present, now. /
> Apparently avoided in literary use between the 17th and 20th
> centuries, but in regular use in most English dialects and by
> Scottish writers; revived in the 20th cent. in the U.S., subsequently
> in Britain and elsewhere. Regarded by some usage writers, esp. after
> the mid 20th cent., as erroneous or ambiguous."

> Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:

> "... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary English
> since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English dialects
> and common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a vigorous
> revival, though whether for any better reason than *novelty hunting*
> may be doubted, seeing that we have available for the same purpose
> not only /now/ but also for those who dislike monosyllables /at
> present/ and /currently/."

The semantic progression seems natural. "By and by" now means "in a
short while", but when Juliet responds from the balcony to her nurse's
calls, "By and by I come", she means to appease her by saying "right away".

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: lar3r...@gmail.com (lar3ryca)
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by: lar3ryca - Mon, 17 Jan 2022 17:20 UTC

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 8:04:55 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> On 1/16/2022 12:50 AM, Hibou wrote:
> > Quinn C a écrit :
> >> * Hibou:
>
> >>> There is an interesting usage note here:
>
> >>> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/presently>:
>
> >>> "The two apparently contradictory meanings of presently, 'in a
> >>> little while, soon' and 'at the present time, now,' are both old
> >>> in the language. In the latter meaning presently dates back to
> >>> the 15th century. It is currently in standard use in all
> >>> varieties of speech and writing in both Great Britain and the
> >>> United States. The sense 'soon' arose gradually during the 16th
> >>> century...."
>
> >> I find it likely that "presently" to mean "soon" was a euphemism
> >> at first - it's going to be so soon, it's practically no wait at
> >> all!
>
> > Do you have any evidence for that conjecture?
>
> > The OED is interesting:
>
> > "[Sense] 1.b. In a little while, before long, soon. / Now the usual
> > sense. / The development of this sense from 1.a. was so imperceptible
> > that early examples, esp. before c1650, are dubious."
>
> > "[Sense] 2.a. At the present time; at this time, at present, now. /
> > Apparently avoided in literary use between the 17th and 20th
> > centuries, but in regular use in most English dialects and by
> > Scottish writers; revived in the 20th cent. in the U.S., subsequently
> > in Britain and elsewhere. Regarded by some usage writers, esp. after
> > the mid 20th cent., as erroneous or ambiguous."
>
> > Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:
>
> > "... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary English
> > since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English dialects
> > and common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a vigorous
> > revival, though whether for any better reason than *novelty hunting*
> > may be doubted, seeing that we have available for the same purpose
> > not only /now/ but also for those who dislike monosyllables /at
> > present/ and /currently/."
> The semantic progression seems natural. "By and by" now means "in a
> short while", but when Juliet responds from the balcony to her nurse's
> calls, "By and by I come", she means to appease her by saying "right away".

Does she? I seldom use that expression, but I would take it to mean
'sometime in the future', the amount of time being unspecified.

--
"My dear, if I say I'll do something, I'll do it. There's no need to
remind me every six months."

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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by: Jerry Friedman - Mon, 17 Jan 2022 17:29 UTC

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 11:07:01 PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
> Le 16/01/2022 à 05:50, Hibou a écrit :
> >
> > Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:
> >
> > "... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary English
> > since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English dialects and
> > common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a vigorous revival,
> > though whether for any better reason than *novelty hunting* may be
> > doubted, seeing that we have available for the same purpose not only
> > /now/ but also for those who dislike monosyllables /at present/ and
> > /currently/."

> For those who loathe concision, we also have "at this moment in time."

"At this particular point in time".

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<8oabugp7nooe728t7hs5445u4cd3ngsn79@4ax.com>

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From: drsteerf...@yahoo.com (Mack A. Damia)
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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
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by: Mack A. Damia - Mon, 17 Jan 2022 17:46 UTC

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:29:00 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 11:07:01 PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 16/01/2022 à 05:50, Hibou a écrit :
>> >
>> > Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:
>> >
>> > "... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary English
>> > since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English dialects and
>> > common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a vigorous revival,
>> > though whether for any better reason than *novelty hunting* may be
>> > doubted, seeing that we have available for the same purpose not only
>> > /now/ but also for those who dislike monosyllables /at present/ and
>> > /currently/."
>
>> For those who loathe concision, we also have "at this moment in time."
>
>"At this particular point in time".

"at present" give me a sense of "now" while "at this moment in time"
or your suggestion could mean "now" or, say, December 7, 1941.

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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From: bellemar...@gmail.com (CDB)
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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
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by: CDB - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 14:13 UTC

On 1/17/2022 12:20 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Hibou wrote:
>>> Quinn C a écrit :
>>>> * Hibou:

>>>>> There is an interesting usage note here:

>>>>> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/presently>:

>>>>> "The two apparently contradictory meanings of presently, 'in
>>>>> a little while, soon' and 'at the present time, now,' are
>>>>> both old in the language. In the latter meaning presently
>>>>> dates back to the 15th century. It is currently in standard
>>>>> use in all varieties of speech and writing in both Great
>>>>> Britain and the United States. The sense 'soon' arose
>>>>> gradually during the 16th century...."

>>>> I find it likely that "presently" to mean "soon" was a
>>>> euphemism at first - it's going to be so soon, it's practically
>>>> no wait at all!

>>> Do you have any evidence for that conjecture?
>>
>>> The OED is interesting:

>>> "[Sense] 1.b. In a little while, before long, soon. / Now the
>>> usual sense. / The development of this sense from 1.a. was so
>>> imperceptible that early examples, esp. before c1650, are
>>> dubious."

>>> "[Sense] 2.a. At the present time; at this time, at present, now.
>>> / Apparently avoided in literary use between the 17th and 20th
>>> centuries, but in regular use in most English dialects and by
>>> Scottish writers; revived in the 20th cent. in the U.S.,
>>> subsequently in Britain and elsewhere. Regarded by some usage
>>> writers, esp. after the mid 20th cent., as erroneous or
>>> ambiguous."

>>> Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:

>>> "... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary
>>> English since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English
>>> dialects and common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a
>>> vigorous revival, though whether for any better reason than
>>> *novelty hunting* may be doubted, seeing that we have available
>>> for the same purpose not only /now/ but also for those who
>>> dislike monosyllables /at present/ and /currently/."
>> The semantic progression seems natural. "By and by" now means "in
>> a short while", but when Juliet responds from the balcony to her
>> nurse's calls, "By and by I come", she means to appease her by
>> saying "right away".

> Does she? I seldom use that expression, but I would take it to mean
> 'sometime in the future', the amount of time being unspecified.

Generations of Juliets have said "right away" and then dawdled
shamelessly. That's how it came to mean about the same thing as
"mañana" ("not now").

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

<1arwt445z2oq1.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>

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by: Quinn C - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 14:24 UTC

* CDB:

> On 1/17/2022 12:20 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>> CDB wrote:
>>> Hibou wrote:
>>>> Quinn C a écrit :
>>>>> * Hibou:
>
>>>>>> There is an interesting usage note here:
>
>>>>>> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/presently>:
>
>>>>>> "The two apparently contradictory meanings of presently, 'in
>>>>>> a little while, soon' and 'at the present time, now,' are
>>>>>> both old in the language. In the latter meaning presently
>>>>>> dates back to the 15th century. It is currently in standard
>>>>>> use in all varieties of speech and writing in both Great
>>>>>> Britain and the United States. The sense 'soon' arose
>>>>>> gradually during the 16th century...."
>
>>>>> I find it likely that "presently" to mean "soon" was a
>>>>> euphemism at first - it's going to be so soon, it's practically
>>>>> no wait at all!
>
>>>> Do you have any evidence for that conjecture?
>>>
>>>> The OED is interesting:
>
>>>> "[Sense] 1.b. In a little while, before long, soon. / Now the
>>>> usual sense. / The development of this sense from 1.a. was so
>>>> imperceptible that early examples, esp. before c1650, are
>>>> dubious."
>
>>>> "[Sense] 2.a. At the present time; at this time, at present, now.
>>>> / Apparently avoided in literary use between the 17th and 20th
>>>> centuries, but in regular use in most English dialects and by
>>>> Scottish writers; revived in the 20th cent. in the U.S.,
>>>> subsequently in Britain and elsewhere. Regarded by some usage
>>>> writers, esp. after the mid 20th cent., as erroneous or
>>>> ambiguous."
>
>>>> Fowler, MEU 1996 (1965), said:
>
>>>> "... at present... said by the OED to be obsolete in literary
>>>> English since the 17th c., though in regular use in most English
>>>> dialects and common in Scottish writers. It is now enjoying a
>>>> vigorous revival, though whether for any better reason than
>>>> *novelty hunting* may be doubted, seeing that we have available
>>>> for the same purpose not only /now/ but also for those who
>>>> dislike monosyllables /at present/ and /currently/."
>>> The semantic progression seems natural. "By and by" now means "in
>>> a short while", but when Juliet responds from the balcony to her
>>> nurse's calls, "By and by I come", she means to appease her by
>>> saying "right away".
>
>> Does she? I seldom use that expression, but I would take it to mean
>> 'sometime in the future', the amount of time being unspecified.
>
> Generations of Juliets have said "right away" and then dawdled
> shamelessly. That's how it came to mean about the same thing as
> "mañana" ("not now").

Generations of Romeos have expected their women to look flawless, and
then shamed them for taking the time to do so.

<https://www.elle.com/culture/books/a31227593/nothing-is-effortless-pretty-bitches-essay/>

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 18:27 UTC

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 9:24:57 AM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
> * CDB:

> > Generations of Juliets have said "right away" and then dawdled
> > shamelessly. That's how it came to mean about the same thing as
> > "mañana" ("not now").
>
> Generations of Romeos have expected their women to look flawless, and
> then shamed them for taking the time to do so.

"scolded"? "embarrassed"? That might be a faux ami.

> <https://www.elle.com/culture/books/a31227593/nothing-is-effortless-pretty-bitches-essay/>

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
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by: Quinn C - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:49 UTC

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 9:24:57 AM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
>> * CDB:
>
>>> Generations of Juliets have said "right away" and then dawdled
>>> shamelessly. That's how it came to mean about the same thing as
>>> "mañana" ("not now").
>>
>> Generations of Romeos have expected their women to look flawless, and
>> then shamed them for taking the time to do so.
>
> "scolded"? "embarrassed"?

No, I meant "to cause to feel shame", meaning #1 of "to shame" in
Wiktionary. Meaning #2 "to cover with reproach", would also work, and
could be expressed by "scold", I guess, but the first one is what I was
really going for.

> That might be a faux ami.

I wasn't even able to give a German equivalent instantly. For the
moment, I've landed on "vorwerfen", reproach.

The closest word-wise, "beschämen", usually works the other way: I make
you ashamed by my actions, not by criticizing yours. So that's more
"embarrass". Were you clear about the agent and patient of "shame" in my
sentence?

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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by: bil...@shaw.ca - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 23:01 UTC

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 4:04:51 PM UTC-8, Dingbat wrote:
> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:40:58 PM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 12:37:16 -0800 (PST), lar3ryca
> > <lar3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 4:27:35 AM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:09:17 AM UTC-8, Snidely wrote:
> > >> > lar3ryca blurted out:
> > >> > > On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 6:17:12 PM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> > >> > >> Subject: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> This Hawaiian island, aptly nicknamed “Forbidden Island,” was purchased by
> > >> > >> Elizabeth Sinclair in 1864 and has been privately owned by her descendants
> > >> > >> ever since. Only 170 people inhabit the island presently.
> > >> > >> https://itsthevibe.com/forbidden-places/7/
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> I was taught that the only way to use Presently is like this:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> The island is currently deserted but shall presently be settled..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > You were taught incorrectly.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Presently: Soon
> > >> > > He will be home presently.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Presently: At this time.
> > >> > > He is presently at home
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The dictionary is your friend.
> > >> > AIUI from AUE, an AmE dictionary is your friend.
>
> > >> ... but it was UK English I was asking about.
> > >> I already know that Presently means Currently in US English.
> > >
> > >OK, but I had no idea what 'presently' means in US English.
> > >In Canada, I hear it both ways.
> > The examples do not indicate that the word "presently" means"soon" or
> > "currently". The context determines that.
> >
> > "He is presently at home" means "currently" because it follows "is".
> >
> If an editor asked you to change presently to currently,
> in such contexts, would you object? I wasn't in a position to
> so object since I'd lose points for using Presently to mean
> Currently in an English composition.
> >
I would not think highly of that editor. "He is at home" or, with emphasis,
"He is at home now" mean exactly what you are trying to say, without
the ambiguities that can arise with "presently" and "currently".

For example, "presently" can mean "very soon" to some people,
and "currently" can mean "generally" but not necessarily at this
moment, as in, "He is currently studying at Oxford".

bill

> > "He will be home presently" because it follows "will be".
> >
> > Therefore, in the US, you can hear it used for both meanings.
> > --

Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?

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Subject: Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Wed, 19 Jan 2022 00:14 UTC

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 5:49:26 PM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 9:24:57 AM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * CDB:

> >>> Generations of Juliets have said "right away" and then dawdled
> >>> shamelessly. That's how it came to mean about the same thing as
> >>> "mañana" ("not now").
> >> Generations of Romeos have expected their women to look flawless, and
> >> then shamed them for taking the time to do so.
> > "scolded"? "embarrassed"?
>
> No, I meant "to cause to feel shame", meaning #1 of "to shame" in
> Wiktionary. Meaning #2 "to cover with reproach", would also work, and
> could be expressed by "scold", I guess, but the first one is what I was
> really going for.

That's not a dictionary. Was it showing you a listing from a historical
dictionary like OED or M-W? That would probably not be the first
meaning in one that makes value judgments like AHD.

> > That might be a faux ami.
>
> I wasn't even able to give a German equivalent instantly. For the
> moment, I've landed on "vorwerfen", reproach.
>
> The closest word-wise, "beschämen", usually works the other way: I make
> you ashamed by my actions, not by criticizing yours. So that's more
> "embarrass". Were you clear about the agent and patient of "shame" in my
> sentence?

Google Translate agrees with you.

"Reproach" is a hoity-toity word for what you intended. Reprove"
is a little milder. The ordinary word is as I said "scold."

"Shaming" is a public act. Do you really think your husband would
berate you in front of people for taking too long to put on your
dress and your makeup?

Subject	Author
What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Dingbat
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	lar3ryca
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Snidely
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Dingbat
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Horace LaBadie
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	lar3ryca
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Tony Cooper
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Dingbat
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Tony Cooper
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	bil...@shaw.ca
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Dingbat
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	bil...@shaw.ca
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Peter T. Daniels
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Hibou
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Quinn C
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Hibou
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Hibou
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Jerry Friedman
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Mack A. Damia
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	CDB
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	lar3ryca
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	CDB
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Quinn C
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Peter T. Daniels
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Quinn C
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Peter T. Daniels
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	Tony Cooper
Re: What does presently mean currently in UK English?	CDB