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interests / soc.culture.china / Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]

Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]

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From: anf...@wp.eu (A. Filip)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 09:41:52 +0200
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by: A. Filip - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:41 UTC

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62544867
> Former Afghan presidents mark anniversary of Taliban rule
> Published 2022-08-15T03:52:19.000Z
>
> Afghanistan's two former presidents have given wide ranging interviews
> to mark the first anniversary of the fall of the country's capital,
> Kabul, to the Taliban.
> The Islamist insurgents seized the city on 15 August last year amid
> little resistance, as the Western backed government collapsed, and
> national army troops surrendered in their thousands as the Taliban
> rapidly took control. […]

Would 30 years be enough?

--
A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
| It is not best to swap horses while crossing the river.
| (Abraham Lincoln)

Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]

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Subject: Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of
NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]
From: ltl...@hotmail.com (ltlee1)
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by: ltlee1 - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:28 UTC

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:41:55 AM UTC-4, A. Filip wrote:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62544867
> > Former Afghan presidents mark anniversary of Taliban rule
> > Published 2022-08-15T03:52:19.000Z
> >
> > Afghanistan's two former presidents have given wide ranging interviews
> > to mark the first anniversary of the fall of the country's capital,
> > Kabul, to the Taliban.
> > The Islamist insurgents seized the city on 15 August last year amid
> > little resistance, as the Western backed government collapsed, and
> > national army troops surrendered in their thousands as the Taliban
> > rapidly took control. […]

Had Afghanistan enjoyed 20 years of democratic freedom or had they suffered
20 years of Western style democratic incompetence?

> Would 30 years be enough?
30 years of what?

Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]

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From: anf...@wp.eu (A. Filip)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 16:27:58 +0200
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by: A. Filip - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 14:27 UTC

ltlee1 <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:41:55 AM UTC-4, A. Filip wrote:
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62544867
>> > Former Afghan presidents mark anniversary of Taliban rule
>> > Published 2022-08-15T03:52:19.000Z
>> >
>> > Afghanistan's two former presidents have given wide ranging interviews
>> > to mark the first anniversary of the fall of the country's capital,
>> > Kabul, to the Taliban.
>> > The Islamist insurgents seized the city on 15 August last year amid
>> > little resistance, as the Western backed government collapsed, and
>> > national army troops surrendered in their thousands as the Taliban
>> > rapidly took control. […]
>
> Had Afghanistan enjoyed 20 years of democratic freedom or had they
> suffered 20 years of Western style democratic incompetence?

Something between. Democracy is not worth too much when citizens are
not ready/willing to defend it *themselves*.

>> Would 30 years be enough?
> 30 years of what?

"Democracy rules in Iraq, U.S. democracy"
-- saying about Iraq Liberated

--
A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
| Anyone who says he can see through women is missing a lot.
| (Groucho Marx)

Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]

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Subject: Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of
NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]
From: ltl...@hotmail.com (ltlee1)
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by: ltlee1 - Sun, 21 Aug 2022 17:56 UTC

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:28:46 AM UTC-4, A. Filip wrote:
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:41:55 AM UTC-4, A. Filip wrote:
> >> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62544867
> >> > Former Afghan presidents mark anniversary of Taliban rule
> >> > Published 2022-08-15T03:52:19.000Z
> >> >
> >> > Afghanistan's two former presidents have given wide ranging interviews
> >> > to mark the first anniversary of the fall of the country's capital,
> >> > Kabul, to the Taliban.
> >> > The Islamist insurgents seized the city on 15 August last year amid
> >> > little resistance, as the Western backed government collapsed, and
> >> > national army troops surrendered in their thousands as the Taliban
> >> > rapidly took control. […]
> >
> > Had Afghanistan enjoyed 20 years of democratic freedom or had they
> > suffered 20 years of Western style democratic incompetence?

> Something between.
> Democracy is not worth too much when citizens are
> not ready/willing to defend it *themselves*.

Right on.
Yet Afghan citizens are a lot more ready/willing to fight as Taliban soldiers.
Why?
If one is not too beholden by the "either Democracy or Authoritarinism" dichotomy,
the answer has to be one of the below:
1. Afghans are stupid such that they don't appreciate democracy.
2. Life under Taliban is more democratic and/or democratically hopeful.

> >> Would 30 years be enough?
> > 30 years of what?
> "Democracy rules in Iraq, U.S. democracy"
> -- saying about Iraq Liberated
> --
> A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
> | Anyone who says he can see through women is missing a lot.
> | (Groucho Marx)

Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]

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Subject: Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of
NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]
From: papajoe...@yahoo.com (stoney)
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by: stoney - Mon, 22 Aug 2022 14:48 UTC

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:56:15 AM UTC+8, ltlee1 wrote:
> Right on.
> Yet Afghan citizens are a lot more ready/willing to fight as Taliban soldiers.
> Why?
> If one is not too beholden by the "either Democracy or Authoritarinism" dichotomy,
> the answer has to be one of the below:
> 1. Afghans are stupid such that they don't appreciate democracy.
> 2. Life under Taliban is more democratic and/or democratically hopeful.

Both are right. Afghans don't appreciate democracy. To their own specifications and definitions, life under Taliban is more democratic, and/or is willing to wait for more democratically hopeful too. Afghans have many factions, and they now after much warring at each other can now adjust to meet each other eyeball's expectations.

Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]

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From: anf...@wp.eu (A. Filip)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military presence" [presidents shift the blame]
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022 17:34:52 +0200
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by: A. Filip - Mon, 22 Aug 2022 15:34 UTC

stoney <papajoe168@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 1:56:15 AM UTC+8, ltlee1 wrote:
>> Right on.
>> Yet Afghan citizens are a lot more ready/willing to fight as Taliban soldiers.
>> Why?
>> If one is not too beholden by the "either Democracy or Authoritarinism" dichotomy,
>> the answer has to be one of the below:
>> 1. Afghans are stupid such that they don't appreciate democracy.
>> 2. Life under Taliban is more democratic and/or democratically hopeful.
>
> Both are right. Afghans don't appreciate democracy. To their own
> specifications and definitions, life under Taliban is more democratic,
> and/or is willing to wait for more democratically hopeful too. Afghans
> have many factions, and they now after much warring at each other can
> now adjust to meet each other eyeball's expectations.

USA politicians had been too stupid/arrogant to sell democracy properly
fine tuned to local needs/traditions, hadn't they? 20 years had been
more than enough for at very least one "big correction".
<cynicism> Sometimes+ I assume that USA almost intentionally created
regime incapable to survive without constant USA help. </cynicism>

Mistakes are forgivable. Remaining in error *for long* is unforgivable.

--
A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
| If I love you, what business is it of yours? (Johann van Goethe)

Subject	Author
Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military pre	A. Filip
Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of	ltlee1
Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military	A. Filip
Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of	ltlee1
Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of	stoney
Re: Afghanistan "liberated" required more than 20 years of NATO/USA/UK "military	A. Filip