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interests / soc.culture.china / Re: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life

SubjectAuthor
* How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian LifeOleg Smirnov
`* Re: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Lifeltlee1
 `- Re: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Lifebmoore

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How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life

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From: os3...@netc.eu (Oleg Smirnov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.ukrainian
Subject: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 18:32:57 +0300
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 by: Oleg Smirnov - Fri, 5 Aug 2022 15:32 UTC

> How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life
> By Troianovski, Hopkins, Santora & Schwirtz, July 30, 2022, NY Times
>
> They have handed out Russian passports, cellphone numbers and set-top boxes
> for watching Russian television. They have replaced Ukrainian currency with
> the ruble, rerouted the internet through Russian servers and arrested
> hundreds who have resisted assimilation.

"Assimilation" is a thing that may happen throughout generations and
centuries. It doesn't happen throughout weeks. The fact the writers abuse
this term exposes their idiotist zeal.

Just recently there was a scandal in Sweden <https://tinyurl.com/2cfqv8ld>
when one of their major TV channels <https://is.gd/srdspM> showed how the
locals in Kherson celebrate, with sincere joy, the acquisition of the
Russia's citizenship. This is because they expect Russia will provide more
comfortable life for them. Comfortable in both cultural sense (no more
those moronic thugs with Nazi tattoos seeking to forcibly impose the
Banderist version of "ukrainization") and economic sense (higher incomes
and more socially oriented state policies). The Swedish TV channel feebly
excused itself by claiming they simply used the videos made by the Reuters
agency. Nonetheless, it was qualified as "Russian disinformation", because
the channel showed the videos as is, without an anti-Russia narration.

> Any referendum would be totally illegitimate, Ukrainian and Western
> officials say, but it would carry ominous consequences. Analysts both in

It doesn't matter what they say there.

> Annexation would also represent Europe's biggest territorial expansion by
> force since World War II, affecting an area several times larger than
> Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula that Mr. Putin took over in 2014.

The Ukraine might be preserved as a whole if the Kremlin's initial "blitz"
plan worked so that a saner government in Kiev could be established instead
of the present bunch of the cocaine-driven mad freaks. Since the plan had
failed, the "plan B" now seems to be to sanize what is possible to sanize.
The 2014 West-backed anti-democratic coup produced a lot of insanity there.

> the Crimean "referendum" in
> which 97% voted in favor of joining Russia - a result widely rejected by the
> international community as a sham.

This notorious "international community" has become itself a sham.

| May 2014, American Pew found "Crimean residents are almost universally
| positive toward Russia .. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th
| referendum was free and fair (91%)" <https://is.gd/agkuT2>

| Gallup poll (sponsored by the U.S. government, suddenly), in June 2014
| <https://is.gd/xptTX9> (page 28) had found that the vast majority of the
| Crimeans agree that the referendum expressed their will fairly.

| In February 2015, the major German pollster GfK had found similar results
| <https://is.gd/Yhm15G>: when Crimeans were asked "do you endorse Russia's
| annexation" 93% gave positive response while only 4% said they dislike it.

Crimea is now a good example for the people of Kherson. Recently, transport
links - for trains, buses, private cars - have been opened between Crimea
and the southern (post-)Ukraine. So, many locals now could visit Crimea and
see firsthand how life there has improved against the Ukraine, which also
contributes to their pro-Russia sentiment.

> "Kherson has returned to the 90s when only vodka, beer and cigarettes were
> for sale," he said.

<https://youtu.be/2Eua2OGc5yg>
<https://youtu.be/4nFhhk1uUCs>
<https://youtu.be/kmPzfcPSUEI>

Everything is there for sale, but prices of some goods are higher against
"normal", which is a temporary issue due to the fact the trade logistics are
temporarily hampered.

> Still signs of resistance are evident, residents said.
> "Our people go out at night and paint Ukrainian flags," said another man,
> Andrei. "In yellow and blue letters they paint, 'We believe in the Ukrainian
> Armed Forces.'

It's notable that within these "occupied territories" there's nothing that
might resemble grassroot guerrilla-like activities. Some displeased always
are, but there's no anything remotely close to "mass resistance". The Kiev
regime sends diversionist groups, of course, that seek to commit terrorist
acts (to kill "collaborators" or simply blow up something in public spaces),
but this is not from the grassroots. Instead, some pro-Russia activism is
quite evident in the Kiev-controlled territory. The regime had to admit
recently there are "thousands of traitors" using the internet to report to
Russia the exact locations of their military deployments.

It has something to do with the speculation that "Putin won't stop, he will
go further". I believe the Kremlin has no plans to intrude into areas where
Russia would be seen as an alien unwelcomed invader. And quite a large part
of the Russia's patriots, which includes even some of the most hawkish ones,
share the idea that it would be nice if Poland or Hungary took control over
the West Ukraine and sorted out the Banderites issue there themselves, on
their own, without Russia.

Re: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life

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Subject: Re: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life
From: ltl...@hotmail.com (ltlee1)
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 by: ltlee1 - Sat, 6 Aug 2022 11:40 UTC

On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 11:34:14 AM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> > How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life
> > By Troianovski, Hopkins, Santora & Schwirtz, July 30, 2022, NY Times
> >
> > They have handed out Russian passports, cellphone numbers and set-top boxes
> > for watching Russian television. They have replaced Ukrainian currency with
> > the ruble, rerouted the internet through Russian servers and arrested
> > hundreds who have resisted assimilation.
> "Assimilation" is a thing that may happen throughout generations and
> centuries. It doesn't happen throughout weeks. The fact the writers abuse
> this term exposes their idiotist zeal.

Idiotist zeal is the right description.
I had subscripted the WSJ in the past. But its non-US coverage is getting more
idiotic in general during the past years.

>
> Just recently there was a scandal in Sweden <https://tinyurl.com/2cfqv8ld>
> when one of their major TV channels <https://is.gd/srdspM> showed how the
> locals in Kherson celebrate, with sincere joy, the acquisition of the
> Russia's citizenship. This is because they expect Russia will provide more
> comfortable life for them. Comfortable in both cultural sense (no more
> those moronic thugs with Nazi tattoos seeking to forcibly impose the
> Banderist version of "ukrainization") and economic sense (higher incomes
> and more socially oriented state policies). The Swedish TV channel feebly
> excused itself by claiming they simply used the videos made by the Reuters
> agency. Nonetheless, it was qualified as "Russian disinformation", because
> the channel showed the videos as is, without an anti-Russia narration.
> > Any referendum would be totally illegitimate, Ukrainian and Western
> > officials say, but it would carry ominous consequences. Analysts both in
> It doesn't matter what they say there.
> > Annexation would also represent Europe's biggest territorial expansion by
> > force since World War II, affecting an area several times larger than
> > Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula that Mr. Putin took over in 2014.
> The Ukraine might be preserved as a whole if the Kremlin's initial "blitz"
> plan worked so that a saner government in Kiev could be established instead
> of the present bunch of the cocaine-driven mad freaks. Since the plan had
> failed, the "plan B" now seems to be to sanize what is possible to sanize.
> The 2014 West-backed anti-democratic coup produced a lot of insanity there.
>
> > the Crimean "referendum" in
> > which 97% voted in favor of joining Russia - a result widely rejected by the
> > international community as a sham.
> This notorious "international community" has become itself a sham.
>
> | May 2014, American Pew found "Crimean residents are almost universally
> | positive toward Russia .. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th
> | referendum was free and fair (91%)" <https://is.gd/agkuT2>
>
> | Gallup poll (sponsored by the U.S. government, suddenly), in June 2014
> | <https://is.gd/xptTX9> (page 28) had found that the vast majority of the
> | Crimeans agree that the referendum expressed their will fairly.
>
> | In February 2015, the major German pollster GfK had found similar results
> | <https://is.gd/Yhm15G>: when Crimeans were asked "do you endorse Russia's
> | annexation" 93% gave positive response while only 4% said they dislike it.
>
> Crimea is now a good example for the people of Kherson. Recently, transport
> links - for trains, buses, private cars - have been opened between Crimea
> and the southern (post-)Ukraine. So, many locals now could visit Crimea and
> see firsthand how life there has improved against the Ukraine, which also
> contributes to their pro-Russia sentiment.
> > "Kherson has returned to the 90s when only vodka, beer and cigarettes were
> > for sale," he said.
> <https://youtu.be/2Eua2OGc5yg>
> <https://youtu.be/4nFhhk1uUCs>
> <https://youtu.be/kmPzfcPSUEI>
>
> Everything is there for sale, but prices of some goods are higher against
> "normal", which is a temporary issue due to the fact the trade logistics are
> temporarily hampered.
> > Still signs of resistance are evident, residents said.
> > "Our people go out at night and paint Ukrainian flags," said another man,
> > Andrei. "In yellow and blue letters they paint, 'We believe in the Ukrainian
> > Armed Forces.'
>
> It's notable that within these "occupied territories" there's nothing that
> might resemble grassroot guerrilla-like activities. Some displeased always
> are, but there's no anything remotely close to "mass resistance". The Kiev
> regime sends diversionist groups, of course, that seek to commit terrorist
> acts (to kill "collaborators" or simply blow up something in public spaces),
> but this is not from the grassroots. Instead, some pro-Russia activism is
> quite evident in the Kiev-controlled territory. The regime had to admit
> recently there are "thousands of traitors" using the internet to report to
> Russia the exact locations of their military deployments.
>
> It has something to do with the speculation that "Putin won't stop, he will
> go further". I believe the Kremlin has no plans to intrude into areas where
> Russia would be seen as an alien unwelcomed invader. And quite a large part
> of the Russia's patriots, which includes even some of the most hawkish ones,
> share the idea that it would be nice if Poland or Hungary took control over
> the West Ukraine and sorted out the Banderites issue there themselves, on
> their own, without Russia.

Re: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life

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Subject: Re: How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life
From: bmo...@nyx.net (bmoore)
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 by: bmoore - Sat, 6 Aug 2022 16:16 UTC

On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 4:40:25 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 11:34:14 AM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> > > How the Kremlin Is Forcing Ukrainians to Adopt Russian Life
> > > By Troianovski, Hopkins, Santora & Schwirtz, July 30, 2022, NY Times
> > >
> > > They have handed out Russian passports, cellphone numbers and set-top boxes
> > > for watching Russian television. They have replaced Ukrainian currency with
> > > the ruble, rerouted the internet through Russian servers and arrested
> > > hundreds who have resisted assimilation.
> > "Assimilation" is a thing that may happen throughout generations and
> > centuries. It doesn't happen throughout weeks. The fact the writers abuse
> > this term exposes their idiotist zeal.
> Idiotist zeal is the right description.
> I had subscripted the WSJ in the past. But its non-US coverage is getting more
> idiotic in general during the past years.

Maybe China and Russia are the idiots. Not that the USA is so right :-)

But obviously, Russia is trying to fast forward the assimilation.

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