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Why Turkey is blocking bids by Sweden and Finland to join NATO

THE PHONES at the “Kulliye”, the vast 1,100-room Turkish presidential complex, have been ringing incessantly as Western leaders and officials call to find the answer to an urgent question: what is President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s price for allowing Sweden and Finland to join NATO?
....
But Mr Erdogan astonished his allies earlier this month when he said he opposed the application. ...

He has accused the duo, especially Sweden, of being “a complete hotbed of terrorism” for harbouring members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), insurgents in the predominantly Kurdish regions of Turkey, and the followers of Fethullah Gulen, whom he accuses of fomenting the failed coup of 2016. Such accusations could be levelled against many members of NATO—not least America, which has armed the PKK’s Syrian offshoot to fight against the jihadists of Islamic State, and is home to Mr Gulen himself.

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NATO is basically a "your enemy is my enemy" and "your friend is my friend" kind of organization. The more diverse its membership, the more fragile it will become.

ltlee1, <news:8d0fa87f-febf-4076-af1f-9badfa0bbe93n@googlegroups.com>

> --------------------------------------------------------
> Why Turkey is blocking bids by Sweden and Finland to join NATO

> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> NATO is basically a "your enemy is my enemy" and "your friend is my friend"
> kind of organization. The more diverse its membership, the more fragile it
> will become.

I still think "beginning of the end of NATO" is too strong phrase.
America is still capable to keep it in shape. However, the fact is,
Turkey doesn't have true friends within NATO. The Tirkish Turks en
masse hate America and dislike Europe, and they generally dislike
everyone except the brotherly Azeris and then other Turkic-speaking
nations. But Turkey occupies a geopolitically important location,
which doesn't allow the Atlanticism to put much pressure on Turkey.

The Turkish opposition to the acceptance of Sweden and Finland into
the club is not simply opportunistic (i.e. linked with the Kurdish
question). It's also linked with some strategic concerns. Too much
"europe" within NATO - especially these northern "eurosocialists" -
will make Turkey itself feel less comfortable within the club.

Turkey is well-"westernized", but not truly Western, and the Turks
are not much enthusiastic about the west-centric unilateralism, as
their top politicans express plainly.

| .. If you establish a western-centred world order and
| impose your national interests as the common values and
| needs of humanity, everyone has the right to oppose it.
| Unilateralism in international relations is an invitation
| to conflict .. <https://tinyurl.com/y25mjr8b>

If China offers some attractive cooperation to Turkey, it might
help shift Turkey geopolitically closer to "eurasia", further from
the Atlanticism (but one also needs to realize that Turkey is a
wayward and volatile beast, and Turkey keeps its particular dreams
with regard to Eurasia <https://tinyurl.com/great-turan>).

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 1:07:58 PM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> ltlee1, <news:8d0fa87f-febf-4076...@googlegroups.com>
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > Why Turkey is blocking bids by Sweden and Finland to join NATO
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > NATO is basically a "your enemy is my enemy" and "your friend is my friend"
> > kind of organization. The more diverse its membership, the more fragile it
> > will become.
> I still think "beginning of the end of NATO" is too strong phrase.
> America is still capable to keep it in shape. However, the fact is,
> Turkey doesn't have true friends within NATO. The Tirkish Turks en
> masse hate America and dislike Europe, and they generally dislike
> everyone except the brotherly Azeris and then other Turkic-speaking
> nations. But Turkey occupies a geopolitically important location,
> which doesn't allow the Atlanticism to put much pressure on Turkey.
>
> The Turkish opposition to the acceptance of Sweden and Finland into
> the club is not simply opportunistic (i.e. linked with the Kurdish
> question). It's also linked with some strategic concerns. Too much
> "europe" within NATO - especially these northern "eurosocialists" -
> will make Turkey itself feel less comfortable within the club.
>
> Turkey is well-"westernized", but not truly Western, and the Turks
> are not much enthusiastic about the west-centric unilateralism, as
> their top politicans express plainly.
>
> | .. If you establish a western-centred world order and
> | impose your national interests as the common values and
> | needs of humanity, everyone has the right to oppose it.
> | Unilateralism in international relations is an invitation
> | to conflict .. <https://tinyurl.com/y25mjr8b>
>
> If China offers some attractive cooperation to Turkey, it might
> help shift Turkey geopolitically closer to "eurasia", further from
> the Atlanticism (but one also needs to realize that Turkey is a
> wayward and volatile beast, and Turkey keeps its particular dreams
> with regard to Eurasia <https://tinyurl.com/great-turan>).

Let me offer two reasons to support my view.
1. At present, Russia is the only credible enemy that could unite most
NATO members. Without such enemy, NATO would only go down hill.

2. Political wind may be changing in the US.

New York Times editorial: "The War in Ukraine Is Getting Complicated, and America Isn’t Ready"
In short, getting too involved in Ukraine is harmful to US interest.
Opinion piece by Thomas Friedman: He had a lunch with Biden.

"I left our lunch with a full stomach but a heavy heart.
Biden didn’t say it in so many words, but he didn’t have to.. I could hear it between the lines: He’s
worried that while he has reunited the West, he may not be able to reunite America."

If the US cannot solve its internal problems, winning the world could not improve the lives of
Americans. It needs to look inward and focus on competition with China.

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 10:32:43 AM UTC-4, ltlee1 wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Why Turkey is blocking bids by Sweden and Finland to join NATO
>
> THE PHONES at the “Kulliye”, the vast 1,100-room Turkish presidential complex, have been ringing incessantly as Western leaders and officials call to find the answer to an urgent question: what is President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s price for allowing Sweden and Finland to join NATO?
> ...
> But Mr Erdogan astonished his allies earlier this month when he said he opposed the application. ...
>
> He has accused the duo, especially Sweden, of being “a complete hotbed of terrorism” for harbouring members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), insurgents in the predominantly Kurdish regions of Turkey, and the followers of Fethullah Gulen, whom he accuses of fomenting the failed coup of 2016. Such accusations could be levelled against many members of NATO—not least America, which has armed the PKK’s Syrian offshoot to fight against the jihadists of Islamic State, and is home to Mr Gulen himself.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> NATO is basically a "your enemy is my enemy" and "your friend is my friend" kind of organization. The more diverse its membership, the more fragile it will become.

On the other hand, your economy is still your economy.
Nato members with oil can tolerate the situation longer economically than those
relying on import gas and oil at significantly higher price.

Some cities are a lot more likely to be targets of nuclear bombing
if the conflict escalates.

On Monday, May 23, 2022 at 10:32:43 PM UTC+8, ltlee1 wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Why Turkey is blocking bids by Sweden and Finland to join NATO
>
> THE PHONES at the “Kulliye”, the vast 1,100-room Turkish presidential complex, have been ringing incessantly as Western leaders and officials call to find the answer to an urgent question: what is President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s price for allowing Sweden and Finland to join NATO?
> ...
> But Mr Erdogan astonished his allies earlier this month when he said he opposed the application. ...
>
> He has accused the duo, especially Sweden, of being “a complete hotbed of terrorism” for harbouring members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), insurgents in the predominantly Kurdish regions of Turkey, and the followers of Fethullah Gulen, whom he accuses of fomenting the failed coup of 2016. Such accusations could be levelled against many members of NATO—not least America, which has armed the PKK’s Syrian offshoot to fight against the jihadists of Islamic State, and is home to Mr Gulen himself.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> NATO is basically a "your enemy is my enemy" and "your friend is my friend" kind of organization. The more diverse its membership, the more fragile it will become.

Membership enables each one in watching and eye-balling at each other, and if any, in a peaceful and transparent manners. It enables eye-rolling in a more comfortably like in a nature camp in order to get to know the rough edges of each other. Membership is for "one and all". It is basically a mafia triad society and so on.