Hello, all.

No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
(e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?

I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
line meetings.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:57:36 +0300, Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>Hello, all.
>No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
>SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
>general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
>speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
>bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
>(e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
>online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
>mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
>line meetings.

"They're here already! You're next! You're next!"
--Dr. Miles Bennell, Invasion of the Body Snatchers

ironically, Kevin McCarthy's parents both died of actual influenza
during the "Spanish Flu" pandemic of 1918 (Roy, aged 38; Tess, 29)

In comp.misc Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus SPAM, than
> another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in general and LLMs in
> particular are developing at break-neck speed, social platforms may
> soon be infested by intelligent bots that will be rather hard to
> distinguish from humans (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it
> be the end of online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?

Removing the profit motive from the spammers. So long as gullible
users buy the wares offered, or hand money over to the scams, the
spammers have a profit motive to continue to work around all attempts
to thwart them.

> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant mutual cross
> verification of users by each other via off-line meetings.

I.e., the pgp web-of-trust. It technically worked well. In reality it
did not live up to its true value due to the need for those "off-line"
meetings to truly make it workable.

So I see no reason to expect a new variant will fare any better.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:57:36 +0300, Anton Shepelev wrote:

> Hello, all.
>
> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?

Nearly 100% of nocem listings since google left is of computer generated
posts, but these posts started before 22 Feb.

> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
> line meetings.

That's a great way to meet a lot of fbi agents.

On 3/27/2024 5:57 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>
> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
> line meetings.
>

"The boy was not sure what he was doing in the forest. He had
been hiking for hours and thought he was at the edge of his
endurance. The summer heat and humidity were oppressive and
had left him feeling weak. He was seeking peace and quiet, a
place to meditate and escape the distractions of his busy life.
Maybe he was looking for treasure, but he did not know it.
He was annoyed that his cell phone had no signal, but he was
even more upset that his GPS had malfunctioned, and he had lost his way.

He thought he should be back at his vehicle by now. Unfortunately,
he was not sure where he was, and he was becoming increasingly
frustrated. He started to worry that he was lost. He was not
worried about being eaten by wild animals. There were none in
this part of the forest. He was, however, concerned that the
sun would soon set and that he would become disoriented and lost at night.

He was feeling a bit less confident than he usually did when
he was on a mountain hike. He had felt more at home in the rugged,
beautiful surroundings of the Alps, but he was not sure that
he had the endurance to blast his way out of this particular
situation. He was happy to traverse the rugged trails of the
mountains, but he was not convinced that he could battle his
way out of this. He was grateful that he was a healthy man,
but he was not sure that he had the strength to hike his way out
of the jungle.
"

That's the current state of AI for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can't_Believe_It's_Not_Butter!

Paul

Retro Guy <retroguy@novabbs.org> wrote:
[...]
> > I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
> > mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
> > line meetings.
>
> That's a great way to meet a lot of fbi agents.

That's OK if some of them are pretty or handsome
(according to one's taste).

--
\|/
(((Ï))) - Mr Ön!on
When we shake the ketchup bottle
At first none comes and then a lot'll.

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.free.newsservers.]
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote at 14:37 this Wednesday (GMT):
> On 3/27/2024 5:57 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
>> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
>> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
>> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
>> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
>> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
>> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>>
>> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
>> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
>> line meetings.
>>
>
> "The boy was not sure what he was doing in the forest. He had
> been hiking for hours and thought he was at the edge of his
> endurance. The summer heat and humidity were oppressive and
> had left him feeling weak. He was seeking peace and quiet, a
> place to meditate and escape the distractions of his busy life.
> Maybe he was looking for treasure, but he did not know it.
> He was annoyed that his cell phone had no signal, but he was
> even more upset that his GPS had malfunctioned, and he had lost his way.
>
> He thought he should be back at his vehicle by now. Unfortunately,
> he was not sure where he was, and he was becoming increasingly
> frustrated. He started to worry that he was lost. He was not
> worried about being eaten by wild animals. There were none in
> this part of the forest. He was, however, concerned that the
> sun would soon set and that he would become disoriented and lost at night.
>
> He was feeling a bit less confident than he usually did when
> he was on a mountain hike. He had felt more at home in the rugged,
> beautiful surroundings of the Alps, but he was not sure that
> he had the endurance to blast his way out of this particular
> situation. He was happy to traverse the rugged trails of the
> mountains, but he was not convinced that he could battle his
> way out of this. He was grateful that he was a healthy man,
> but he was not sure that he had the strength to hike his way out
> of the jungle.
> "
>
> That's the current state of AI for you.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can't_Believe_It's_Not_Butter!
>
> Paul

The "current" state. It definitely could be a worrying prospect.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

In message <uu19el$2sn32$1@dont-email.me>, Rich <rich@example.invalid>
writes
>In comp.misc Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus SPAM, than
>> another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in general and LLMs in
>> particular are developing at break-neck speed, social platforms may
>> soon be infested by intelligent bots that will be rather hard to
>> distinguish from humans (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it
>> be the end of online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>
>Removing the profit motive from the spammers. So long as gullible
>users buy the wares offered, or hand money over to the scams, the
>spammers have a profit motive to continue to work around all attempts
>to thwart them.
>

And what where the motive isn't directly financial, e,g, disinformation
?

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote in
news:20240327125736.af9b279c995077aa3eccfee4@g{oogle}mail.com:

> Hello, all.
>
> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>
> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
> line meetings.

There are likely some already. I've met one that is under several names in
several groups whose motive is an Eliza-like short disagreement answer to
everything.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 07:31:25 -0700, Retro Guy <retroguy@novabbs.org> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:57:36 +0300, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
>> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
>> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
>> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
>> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
>> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
>> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>
>Nearly 100% of nocem listings since google left is of computer generated
>posts, but these posts started before 22 Feb.
>
>> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
>> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
>> line meetings.
>
>That's a great way to meet a lot of fbi agents.

it's a common tactic for psyops/troll farm agents to lure the unwary
into separation from whatever group they have infiltrated, to divide
and conquer, essentially to control the narrative ... cointelpro 101;
every active unmoderated usenet newsgroup is constantly under attack
by these mercenary fear merchants . . . those that live by the sword
http://duckduckgo.com/?q=stand+for+the+flag+kneel+for+the+cross+meme

In comp.misc Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> wrote:
> In message <uu19el$2sn32$1@dont-email.me>, Rich <rich@example.invalid>
> writes
>>In comp.misc Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, all.
>>>
>>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus SPAM,
>>> than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in general and
>>> LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck speed, social
>>> platforms may soon be infested by intelligent bots that will be
>>> rather hard to distinguish from humans (e.g. when the LLM is
>>> uncensored). Will it be the end of online group-based
>>> communication? Is there any hope of preventing or at least staving
>>> off this new apocalypse?
>>
>>Removing the profit motive from the spammers. So long as gullible
>>users buy the wares offered, or hand money over to the scams, the
>>spammers have a profit motive to continue to work around all attempts
>>to thwart them.
>>
>
> And what where the motive isn't directly financial, e,g, disinformation
> ?

There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even those
things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying motive and snip
it off and the incentives go away. The underlying financial motive can
be difficult to discern in some cases.

But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are 'disinformation' is
relatively small vs. the huge pile of clearly sales/scam spamming
occurring. So it would be helpful overall if those had their oxygen
cut off, because that leaves only the smaller set of kooks with their
disinformation to actively ignore.

On 27/03/2024 09:57, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>
> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
> line meetings.
>

You need to fight them with your bow and arrows like tribesmen used to
do when fighting white Europeans who went to colonize them :).

AI is here and Usenet/newsgroups are not able to defend themselves.
Sooner or later one has to disappear from the surface of this planet. We
don't have tribesmen still fighting with their rudimentary weapons. Even
Islamists who are still living in caves have bombs and guns to fight
imperialists who try to disrupt their way of living.

On 3/27/2024 11:50 AM, David LaRue wrote:
> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote in
> news:20240327125736.af9b279c995077aa3eccfee4@g{oogle}mail.com:
>
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
>> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
>> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
>> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
>> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
>> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
>> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>>
>> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
>> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
>> line meetings.
>
> There are likely some already. I've met one that is under several names in
> several groups whose motive is an Eliza-like short disagreement answer to
> everything.

There is a known drinker who does that, and is also a nym shifter.
No, he's not a bot.

Paul

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:14:58 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

[]
>
> There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even those
> things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying motive and snip
> it off and the incentives go away. The underlying financial motive can
> be difficult to discern in some cases.
>
> But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
> direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are 'disinformation' is
> relatively small vs. the huge pile of clearly sales/scam spamming
> occurring. So it would be helpful overall if those had their oxygen
> cut off, because that leaves only the smaller set of kooks with their
> disinformation to actively ignore.

But there are also political types and governments pushing their own
agendas. (Propaganda).

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

In article <uu1ou9$30j5c$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>On 3/27/2024 11:50 AM, David LaRue wrote:
>>
>> There are likely some already. I've met one that is under several names in
>> several groups whose motive is an Eliza-like short disagreement answer to
>> everything.
>
>There is a known drinker who does that, and is also a nym shifter.
>No, he's not a bot.

It is surprising the number of people out there who cannot pass the
Turing test.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:14:58 -0000 (UTC)
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> []
>>
>> There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even
>> those things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying motive
>> and snip it off and the incentives go away. The underlying
>> financial motive can be difficult to discern in some cases.
>>
>> But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
>> direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are 'disinformation'
>> is relatively small vs. the huge pile of clearly sales/scam
>> spamming occurring. So it would be helpful overall if those had
>> their oxygen cut off, because that leaves only the smaller set of
>> kooks with their disinformation to actively ignore.
>
> But there are also political types and governments pushing their own
> agendas. (Propaganda).

There's also a 'financial' incentive there, in that said
government/political types want to keep either tax revenue flowing in,
or keep their nice cushy job prospects open when they leave their
political seat.

Granted, it is by far much harder to snip off the finances there
(usually involves a revolt and regime change) so those do tend to stay
entrenched far longer than one would like.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes:

> On 3/27/2024 5:57 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
>> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
>> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
>> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
>> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
>> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
>> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>>
>> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
>> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
>> line meetings.

[...]

> That's the current state of AI for you.

There's so much propaganda that people don't understand what it really
is and what it can do and not do.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 19:42:32 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:14:58 -0000 (UTC)
> > Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > []
> >>
> >> There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even
> >> those things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying motive
> >> and snip it off and the incentives go away. The underlying
> >> financial motive can be difficult to discern in some cases.
> >>
> >> But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
> >> direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are 'disinformation'
> >> is relatively small vs. the huge pile of clearly sales/scam
> >> spamming occurring. So it would be helpful overall if those had
> >> their oxygen cut off, because that leaves only the smaller set of
> >> kooks with their disinformation to actively ignore.
> >
> > But there are also political types and governments pushing their own
> > agendas. (Propaganda).
>
> There's also a 'financial' incentive there, in that said
> government/political types want to keep either tax revenue flowing in,
> or keep their nice cushy job prospects open when they leave their
> political seat.
>
> Granted, it is by far much harder to snip off the finances there
> (usually involves a revolt and regime change) so those do tend to stay
> entrenched far longer than one would like.

I was thinking specifically of the Russian attempts at misinformation
about Ukraine. This, ISTM, is more about some "Greater Russia" plan than
pure economics.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 19:42:32 -0000 (UTC)
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:14:58 -0000 (UTC)
>> > Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> > []
>> >>
>> >> There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even
>> >> those things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying motive
>> >> and snip it off and the incentives go away. The underlying
>> >> financial motive can be difficult to discern in some cases.
>> >>
>> >> But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
>> >> direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are 'disinformation'
>> >> is relatively small vs. the huge pile of clearly sales/scam
>> >> spamming occurring. So it would be helpful overall if those had
>> >> their oxygen cut off, because that leaves only the smaller set of
>> >> kooks with their disinformation to actively ignore.
>> >
>> > But there are also political types and governments pushing their own
>> > agendas. (Propaganda).
>>
>> There's also a 'financial' incentive there, in that said
>> government/political types want to keep either tax revenue flowing in,
>> or keep their nice cushy job prospects open when they leave their
>> political seat.
>>
>> Granted, it is by far much harder to snip off the finances there
>> (usually involves a revolt and regime change) so those do tend to stay
>> entrenched far longer than one would like.
>
> I was thinking specifically of the Russian attempts at misinformation
> about Ukraine. This, ISTM, is more about some "Greater Russia" plan than
> pure economics.

However, a "Greater Russia" plan does bring more money to both the
Russian leaders (i.e. Putin and others) and the Russian Oligarchs that
support them. If "Russia" is "greater" then more money will flow into
the pockets of Putin and his allies, so there is still a financial
incentive at play.

This, however, is one of those financial incentives that is harder to
"cut off" without a lot of violence.

Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:
> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus SPAM, than
>> another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in general and LLMs in
>> particular are developing at break-neck speed, social platforms may
>> soon be infested by intelligent bots that will be rather hard to
>> distinguish from humans (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it
>> be the end of online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>
> Removing the profit motive from the spammers. So long as gullible
> users buy the wares offered, or hand money over to the scams, the
> spammers have a profit motive to continue to work around all attempts
> to thwart them.

Easy to say, very hard to do...

>> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant mutual cross
>> verification of users by each other via off-line meetings.
>
> I.e., the pgp web-of-trust. It technically worked well. In reality
> it did not live up to its true value due to the need for those
> "off-line" meetings to truly make it workable.
>
> So I see no reason to expect a new variant will fare any better.

The PGP implementation is pretty bad. Actually the in-person key
confirmation is one of the few features to have survived (generally in
more user-friendly form) into other designs.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On 27 Mar 2024, Rich <rich@example.invalid> posted some
news:uu1sr8$31f26$1@dont-email.me:

> In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:14:58 -0000 (UTC)
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> []
>>>
>>> There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even
>>> those things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying motive
>>> and snip it off and the incentives go away. The underlying
>>> financial motive can be difficult to discern in some cases.
>>>
>>> But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
>>> direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are 'disinformation'
>>> is relatively small vs. the huge pile of clearly sales/scam
>>> spamming occurring. So it would be helpful overall if those had
>>> their oxygen cut off, because that leaves only the smaller set of
>>> kooks with their disinformation to actively ignore.
>>
>> But there are also political types and governments pushing their own
>> agendas. (Propaganda).
>
> There's also a 'financial' incentive there, in that said
> government/political types want to keep either tax revenue flowing in,
> or keep their nice cushy job prospects open when they leave their
> political seat.

Term limits and a two year hard ban from lobbying once exiting office.
Pass the insider trading ban for everyone in government service, no
exceptions.

> Granted, it is by far much harder to snip off the finances there
> (usually involves a revolt and regime change) so those do tend to stay
> entrenched far longer than one would like.

Cap government jobs at 20 years. Eliminate government hog trough pensions
where they get paid 130% of what they were making before retirement. Cap
government pensions at 80% max.

On 28 Mar 2024, Rich <rich@example.invalid> posted some
news:uu3v0k$3kjbp$1@dont-email.me:

> In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 19:42:32 -0000 (UTC)
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>> > On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:14:58 -0000 (UTC)
>>> > Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > []
>>> >>
>>> >> There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even
>>> >> those things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying
>>> >> motive and snip it off and the incentives go away. The
>>> >> underlying financial motive can be difficult to discern in some
>>> >> cases.
>>> >>
>>> >> But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
>>> >> direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are
>>> >> 'disinformation' is relatively small vs. the huge pile of
>>> >> clearly sales/scam spamming occurring. So it would be helpful
>>> >> overall if those had their oxygen cut off, because that leaves
>>> >> only the smaller set of kooks with their disinformation to
>>> >> actively ignore.
>>> >
>>> > But there are also political types and governments pushing their
>>> > own agendas. (Propaganda).
>>>
>>> There's also a 'financial' incentive there, in that said
>>> government/political types want to keep either tax revenue flowing
>>> in, or keep their nice cushy job prospects open when they leave
>>> their political seat.
>>>
>>> Granted, it is by far much harder to snip off the finances there
>>> (usually involves a revolt and regime change) so those do tend to
>>> stay entrenched far longer than one would like.
>>
>> I was thinking specifically of the Russian attempts at misinformation
>> about Ukraine. This, ISTM, is more about some "Greater Russia" plan
>> than pure economics.
>
> However, a "Greater Russia" plan does bring more money to both the
> Russian leaders (i.e. Putin and others) and the Russian Oligarchs
> that support them. If "Russia" is "greater" then more money will flow
> into the pockets of Putin and his allies, so there is still a
> financial incentive at play.
>
> This, however, is one of those financial incentives that is harder to
> "cut off" without a lot of violence.

Oil and gas. Russia owns Europe when it comes to that.

On 27 Mar 2024, D <J@M> posted some
news:007cd02060275cc38e4d75e8b57bcbf2@dizum.com:

> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 07:31:25 -0700, Retro Guy <retroguy@novabbs.org>
> wrote:
>>On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:57:36 +0300, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>>> Hello, all.
>>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
>>> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
>>> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
>>> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
>>> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
>>> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
>>> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>>
>>Nearly 100% of nocem listings since google left is of computer
>>generated posts, but these posts started before 22 Feb.
>>
>>> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
>>> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
>>> line meetings.
>>
>>That's a great way to meet a lot of fbi agents.
>
> it's a common tactic for psyops/troll farm agents to lure the unwary
> into separation from whatever group they have infiltrated, to divide
> and conquer, essentially to control the narrative ... cointelpro 101;
> every active unmoderated usenet newsgroup is constantly under attack
> by these mercenary fear merchants . . . those that live by the sword
> http://duckduckgo.com/?q=stand+for+the+flag+kneel+for+the+cross+meme

Separation only works on wusses. Give what you get and make it hurt.
Moderation sucks and kills everything after a while.

On 27 Mar 2024, White European <noreply@imperialists.com> posted some
news:uu1lum$3mofr$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> On 27/03/2024 09:57, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> No sooner was Usenet purged of the plague of GoogleGropus
>> SPAM, than another has appeared on the horison. Since AI in
>> general and LLMs in particular are developing at break-neck
>> speed, social platforms may soon be infested by intelligent
>> bots that will be rather hard to distinguish from humans
>> (e.g. when the LLM is uncensored). Will it be the end of
>> online group-based communication? Is there any hope of
>> preventing or at least staving off this new apocalypse?
>>
>> I for one have only one idea: a heterarchical redundant
>> mutual cross verification of users by each other via off-
>> line meetings.
>>
>
>
> You need to fight them with your bow and arrows like tribesmen used to
> do when fighting white Europeans who went to colonize them :).
>
> AI is here and Usenet/newsgroups are not able to defend themselves.
> Sooner or later one has to disappear from the surface of this planet. We
> don't have tribesmen still fighting with their rudimentary weapons. Even
> Islamists who are still living in caves have bombs and guns to fight
> imperialists who try to disrupt their way of living.

AI has two primary weaknesses. It can't survive without electricity or
interaction / communications. Cut off one or the other and it's helpless.

If you want to cripple a country these days, just fire some rockets into
data centers. That is the inherent weakness of the "cloud".

In comp.misc grinch <grinch@x.com> wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2024, Rich <rich@example.invalid> posted some
> news:uu1sr8$31f26$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> In comp.misc Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:14:58 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> []
>>>>
>>>> There's almost always some ultimate financial motive behind even
>>>> those things that are "disinformation". Find that underlying motive
>>>> and snip it off and the incentives go away. The underlying
>>>> financial motive can be difficult to discern in some cases.
>>>>
>>>> But compared to the spammers with clear financial motives (either
>>>> direct sales or by scams) the percentage that are 'disinformation'
>>>> is relatively small vs. the huge pile of clearly sales/scam
>>>> spamming occurring. So it would be helpful overall if those had
>>>> their oxygen cut off, because that leaves only the smaller set of
>>>> kooks with their disinformation to actively ignore.
>>>
>>> But there are also political types and governments pushing their own
>>> agendas. (Propaganda).
>>
>> There's also a 'financial' incentive there, in that said
>> government/political types want to keep either tax revenue flowing in,
>> or keep their nice cushy job prospects open when they leave their
>> political seat.
>
> Term limits and a two year hard ban from lobbying once exiting office.

Which presents you now with a "fox garding the henhouse" situation. In
most instances the governed would need those who most benefit from not
having these rules in place also be the ones to implement both rules.
And where a politicians benefits are at risk, one can be sure he/she
makes sure he/she has a way to keep those benefits (for example, opting
themselves out of the do-not-call list so many years ago)