Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server please
let him know that he's peering all that spam coming out of Google Groups.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 12:11:08 -0600, Patrick wrote:

> Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server please
> let him know that he's peering all that spam coming out of Google
> Groups.

Are you seeing 'news.dizum.net!news-out.google.com!...' in any headers? I
have not seen it, but of course I don't read 100,000 headers per day.

If you are just seeing news.dizum.net in the Path, but not right before
google, then it's just passing messages along, like other servers. Unless
you are doing your own filtering on your server, you will most likely pass
the spam to your peers. Applying NoCeM won't change that.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 19:14:11 +0000, Retro Guy wrote:
>> Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server please
>> let him know that he's peering all that spam coming out of Google
>> Groups.
>
> Are you seeing 'news.dizum.net!news-out.google.com!...' in any headers? I
> have not seen it, but of course I don't read 100,000 headers per day.
>
> If you are just seeing news.dizum.net in the Path, but not right before
> google, then it's just passing messages along, like other servers. Unless
> you are doing your own filtering on your server, you will most likely pass
> the spam to your peers. Applying NoCeM won't change that.

You're right. I'm wrong. I'm sorry for bashing the dizum service.

I didn't look closely enough at the path header.

I had only looked at the penultimate item on the left instead of at the
first server that peered with the google spam servers on the right.

That server which peered the google spam servers is highwinds-media.com.
Sorry for bashing dizum. I apologize for misreading the path header.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 14:15:45 -0600, Patrick <patrick@oleary.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 19:14:11 +0000, Retro Guy wrote:
>>> Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server please
>>> let him know that he's peering all that spam coming out of Google
>>> Groups.
>>
>> Are you seeing 'news.dizum.net!news-out.google.com!...' in any headers? I
>> have not seen it, but of course I don't read 100,000 headers per day.
>> If you are just seeing news.dizum.net in the Path, but not right before
>> google, then it's just passing messages along, like other servers. Unless
>> you are doing your own filtering on your server, you will most likely pass
>> the spam to your peers. Applying NoCeM won't change that.
>
>You're right. I'm wrong. I'm sorry for bashing the dizum service.
>I didn't look closely enough at the path header.
>I had only looked at the penultimate item on the left instead of at the
>first server that peered with the google spam servers on the right.
>That server which peered the google spam servers is highwinds-media.com.
>Sorry for bashing dizum. I apologize for misreading the path header.

some of these commercial servers appear collude with googlegroups, like
they're always a "middleman" next in the path header before independent
servers further downstream ... like giant phone companies collaborating
with unsolicited/rogue/spoofed callers... does this surprise anyone? no

D <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 14:15:45 -0600, Patrick <patrick@oleary.com> wrote:
> >On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 19:14:11 +0000, Retro Guy wrote:
> >>> Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server please
> >>> let him know that he's peering all that spam coming out of Google
> >>> Groups.
> >>
> >> Are you seeing 'news.dizum.net!news-out.google.com!...' in any headers? I
> >> have not seen it, but of course I don't read 100,000 headers per day.
> >> If you are just seeing news.dizum.net in the Path, but not right before
> >> google, then it's just passing messages along, like other servers. Unless
> >> you are doing your own filtering on your server, you will most likely pass
> >> the spam to your peers. Applying NoCeM won't change that.
> >
> >You're right. I'm wrong. I'm sorry for bashing the dizum service.
> >I didn't look closely enough at the path header.
> >I had only looked at the penultimate item on the left instead of at the
> >first server that peered with the google spam servers on the right.
> >That server which peered the google spam servers is highwinds-media.com.
> >Sorry for bashing dizum. I apologize for misreading the path header.
>
> some of these commercial servers appear collude with googlegroups, like
> they're always a "middleman" next in the path header before independent
> servers further downstream ... like giant phone companies collaborating
> with unsolicited/rogue/spoofed callers... does this surprise anyone? no

I concur.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator.
My pet rock Gordon just said "Don't Be Evil!"

Google Groups articles are not seen here unless poster is whitelisted.

On 12/6/23 15:21, D wrote:
> some of these commercial servers appear collude with googlegroups, like
> they're always a "middleman" next in the path header before independent
> servers further downstream ... like giant phone companies collaborating
> with unsolicited/rogue/spoofed callers... does this surprise anyone? no

It's not collusion.

It's trying to be neutral / agnostic to what peers hand you.

Traditionally you are only responsible for what your users post.
Meaning that you have no responsibility and very little control over
what people post to other servers.

There are (or were) a hand full of news providers that peered directly
with Google. They carry what Google feeds them and subsequently feed it
to their peers. This is how the flood fill methodology of Usenet works.

--
Grant. . . .

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 16:18:12 -0600, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>On 12/6/23 15:21, D wrote:
>> some of these commercial servers appear collude with googlegroups, like
>> they're always a "middleman" next in the path header before independent
>> servers further downstream ... like giant phone companies collaborating
>> with unsolicited/rogue/spoofed callers... does this surprise anyone? no
>
>It's not collusion.
>It's trying to be neutral / agnostic to what peers hand you.
>Traditionally you are only responsible for what your users post.
>Meaning that you have no responsibility and very little control over
>what people post to other servers.
>There are (or were) a hand full of news providers that peered directly
>with Google. They carry what Google feeds them and subsequently feed it
>to their peers. This is how the flood fill methodology of Usenet works.

it obviously takes a lot of serious learning and dedication to run a
newsserver, e.g. "request for comments" (rfc) material is voluminous
and rigorous https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5537.html#section-3.1
>3.1. General Principles
> There are two important principles that news implementors and
> administrators need to keep in mind. The first is the well-known
> Internet Robustness Principle:
> Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send.
> As applied to Netnews, this primarily means that unwanted or non-
> compliant articles SHOULD be rejected as early as possible, but once
> they are in general circulation, relaying and serving agents may wish
> to accept them where possible rather than lose information. Posting
> agents and injecting agents SHOULD therefore be maximally strict in
> their application of both this protocol and [RFC5536], and reading
> agents SHOULD be robust in the presence of violations of the Netnews
> article format where possible.
>...
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5536.html#section-1.1
>1.1. Basic Concepts
> "Netnews" is a set of protocols for generating, storing, and
> retrieving news "articles" (whose format is a subset of that for
> Email messages), and for exchanging them amongst a readership that is
> potentially widely distributed. It is organized around "newsgroups",
> with the expectation that each reader will be able to see all
> articles posted to each newsgroup in which he participates. These
> protocols most commonly use a flooding algorithm, which propagates
> copies throughout a network of participating servers. Typically,
> only one copy is stored per server, and each server makes it
> available on demand to readers who are able to access that server.
[end quoted excerpts]

just because i can cite something doesn't mean i comprehend it; as a
layman, though, these big business servers appear to work in cahoots

On 12/7/23 07:03, D wrote:
> it obviously takes a lot of serious learning and dedication to run a
> newsserver

Eh.... Yes and now.

Running / operating a news server is considerably easier than writing a
news server from the ground up.

Corollary: There are a lot of people driving / running / operating
vehicles that don't have the first idea how to build one from the ground up.

That being said, I'm happy to answer questions as I understand things
and help any / all people that want to run their own news server. I'll
even be that venerable 1st peer.

> just because i can cite something doesn't mean i comprehend it;

*nod*

> as a layman, though, these big business servers appear to work in cahoots
Is the postal carrier in cahoots with the businesses sending the junk
mail? Or is the postal carrier delivering all mail with equal care
despite their opinion on the sender?

--
Grant. . . .

On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 09:25:02 -0600, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>On 12/7/23 07:03, D wrote:
>> it obviously takes a lot of serious learning and dedication to run a
>> newsserver
>
>Eh.... Yes and now.
>Running / operating a news server is considerably easier than writing a
>news server from the ground up.
>Corollary: There are a lot of people driving / running / operating
>vehicles that don't have the first idea how to build one from the ground up.
>That being said, I'm happy to answer questions as I understand things
>and help any / all people that want to run their own news server. I'll
>even be that venerable 1st peer.
>
>> as a layman, though, these big business servers appear to work in cahoots
>
>Is the postal carrier in cahoots with the businesses sending the junk
>mail? Or is the postal carrier delivering all mail with equal care
>despite their opinion on the sender?

whatever any being does in life, seems logical that individuals are motivated
to think, speak and act according to their circumstances from start to finish;
survival instinct, food, clothing, shelter, beyond that is above my pay grade

On 06 Dec 2023, Patrick <patrick@oleary.com> posted some
news:ukqdft$3evqg$1@novabbs.org:

> Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server
> please let him know that he's peering all that spam coming out of
> Google Groups.

That's just terrible, terrible. We'll speak to him immediately.

On 06 Dec 2023, Patrick <patrick@oleary.com> posted some
news:ukqdft$3evqg$1@novabbs.org:

> Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server
> please let him know that he's peeing on all that spam coming out of
> Google Groups.

I'm sure he knows!

On 11 Dec 2023, Epic <stores4u@epic.com> posted some
news:ul8q78$33amm$1@paganini.bofh.team:

> On 06 Dec 2023, Patrick <patrick@oleary.com> posted some
> news:ukqdft$3evqg$1@novabbs.org:
>
>> Can someone who knows the admin at the news.dizum.net news server
>> please let him know that he's peeing on all that spam coming out of
>> Google Groups.
>
> I'm sure he knows!

i'm sure he doesn't care!