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computers / rocksolid.shared.linux / Which distribution do you use?

SubjectAuthor
* Which distribution do you use?Marco
+- Which distribution do you use?Anonymous
+* Which distribution do you use?Anonymous
|`- Which distribution do you use?Marco Moock
+* Which distribution do you use?Marc SCHAEFER
|`* Which distribution do you use?Marco Moock
| +- Which distribution do you use?Marc SCHAEFER
| `* Which distribution do you use?Anonymous
|  `* Which distribution do you use?Marco Moock
|   +* Which distribution do you use?Anonymous
|   |`* Which distribution do you use?Marco Moock
|   | +- Which distribution do you use?Marc SCHAEFER
|   | +* Which distribution do you use?Marc SCHAEFER
|   | |`* Which distribution do you use?Marco Moock
|   | | `* Which distribution do you use?Marc SCHAEFER
|   | |  `- Which distribution do you use?Anonymous
|   | `- Which distribution do you use?Anonymous
|   `- Which distribution do you use?Marc SCHAEFER
`* Which distribution do you use?Anonymous
 `- Which distribution do you use?Anonymous

1
Which distribution do you use?

<tmih3b$3mdgd$4@dont-email.me>

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco)
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Subject: Which distribution do you use?
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 by: Marco - Sun, 4 Dec 2022 16:15 UTC

Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?

Do you prefer Linux or GNU/Linux?

Re: Which distribution do you use?

<2789662d5858821d861297d6c5e1913a@news.novabbs.com>

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 by: Anonymous - Mon, 5 Dec 2022 01:24 UTC

Marco wrote:

> Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?

Debian.

--
Posted on novaBBS

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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From: Anonym...@news.novabbs.org (Anonymous)
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Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 05:02:27 +0000
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 by: Anonymous - Mon, 5 Dec 2022 05:02 UTC

Marco wrote:

> Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?

How about you (op)? I use Debian.

> Do you prefer Linux or GNU/Linux?

You mean what do I prefer to call it? Linux. I understand
saying GNU/Linux but I think ppl understand 'Linux'. At least
the people who would understand what the difference is already
know.

--
Posted on Rocksolid Light

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.shared.linux
Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
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 by: Marco Moock - Mon, 5 Dec 2022 07:38 UTC

Am 05.12.2022 um 05:02:27 Uhr schrieb Anonymous:

> Marco wrote:
>
> > Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?
>
> How about you (op)? I use Debian.

I use Debian Sid on most machines and new installs. Servers will get
Debian stable.
I still have Ubuntu an Raspberry Pi and on 2 desktops, but the next
time I need to change sth. I will replace that with Debian Sid.

> > Do you prefer Linux or GNU/Linux?
>
> You mean what do I prefer to call it?

Yes. I mostly call that Linux because I am lazy.

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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From: schae...@alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.shared.linux
Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 08:41:07 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Marc SCHAEFER - Mon, 5 Dec 2022 08:41 UTC

Marco <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?

Debian is quite nice for embedded systems, virtual machines, servers,
laptop and desktops, and repackaged Debian packages are great on
smartphones too.

The fact that you can install a version without non-free packages is
quite handy for integrators.

> Do you prefer Linux or GNU/Linux?

Depends if you talk about the kernel itself, or the distribution of
user-space software and support libraries, too.

--
Attention: limitez le nombre de lignes de citation à l'essentiel, sinon
je ne verrai pas votre réponse.

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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 by: Marco Moock - Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:21 UTC

Am 05.12.2022 um 08:41:07 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:

> Marco <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> > Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?
>
> Debian is quite nice for embedded systems, virtual machines, servers,
> laptop and desktops, and repackaged Debian packages are great on
> smartphones too.
>
> The fact that you can install a version without non-free packages is
> quite handy for integrators.

This is now harder because the installer will contain non-free firmware.

> > Do you prefer Linux or GNU/Linux?
>
> Depends if you talk about the kernel itself, or the distribution of
> user-space software and support libraries, too.

Many people call the entire system Linux and not only the kernel.

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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 by: Marc SCHAEFER - Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:54 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> This is now harder because the installer will contain non-free firmware.

Interesting: will those non-free firmwares be installed somewhere
manually, or you can get rid of them by removing non-free in
/etc/apt/sources.list, running apt-get update, and then remove all
unreferenced packages (e.g. with aptitude) ?

On most of my systems, I do not have the non-free section and aptitude
does not report Obsolete and locally installed packages.

> Many people call the entire system Linux and not only the kernel.

Yes, of course.

--
Attention: limitez le nombre de lignes de citation à l'essentiel, sinon
je ne verrai pas votre réponse.

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 by: Anonymous - Tue, 6 Dec 2022 20:24 UTC

Marco Moock wrote:

> Am 05.12.2022 um 08:41:07 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:
>> The fact that you can install a version without non-free packages is
>> quite handy for integrators.

> This is now harder because the installer will contain non-free firmware.

Is this for secure boot?

--
Posted on Rocksolid Light

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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 by: Marco Moock - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 07:16 UTC

Am 06.12.2022 um 20:24:12 Uhr schrieb Anonymous:

> Marco Moock wrote:
>
> > Am 05.12.2022 um 08:41:07 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:
>
> >> The fact that you can install a version without non-free packages
> >> is quite handy for integrators.
>
> > This is now harder because the installer will contain non-free
> > firmware.
>
> Is this for secure boot?

No, for devices (networking, sound etc.) that need special drivers or
firmware.

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 by: Anonymous - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 07:39 UTC

Marco Moock wrote:

> Am 06.12.2022 um 20:24:12 Uhr schrieb Anonymous:

>> Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>> > Am 05.12.2022 um 08:41:07 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:
>>
>> >> The fact that you can install a version without non-free packages
>> >> is quite handy for integrators.
>>
>> > This is now harder because the installer will contain non-free
>> > firmware.
>>
>> Is this for secure boot?

> No, for devices (networking, sound etc.) that need special drivers or
> firmware.

I've seen as recently as Debian 11 the installer mention that there are
non-free drivers available, but haven't seen them installed unless you
specifically acknowledge and knowingly install the non-free stuff.

Has this changed?

--
Posted on Rocksolid Light

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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 by: Marco Moock - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 07:58 UTC

Am 07.12.2022 um 07:39:13 Uhr schrieb Anonymous:

> I've seen as recently as Debian 11 the installer mention that there
> are non-free drivers available, but haven't seen them installed
> unless you specifically acknowledge and knowingly install the
> non-free stuff.
>
> Has this changed?

IIRC yes:
https://linuxiac.com/debian-decided-to-include-non-free-firmware-in-the-installer/

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 by: Marc SCHAEFER - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 08:06 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> No, for devices (networking, sound etc.) that need special drivers or
> firmware.

So, either they are in the kernel itself, so the kernel should be marked
non-free, or they are in linux-firmware-non-free or similar, and I would
deinstall them before shipment.

So far, no problem seen in aptitude.

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Re: Which distribution do you use?

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Newsgroups: rocksolid.shared.linux
Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2022 08:09:52 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Marc SCHAEFER - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 08:09 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> https://linuxiac.com/debian-decided-to-include-non-free-firmware-in-the-installer/

"But, just as importantly, Debian users will receive security updates
and important firmware patches, just like any other installed software."

So, this means that deactivating non-free in /etc/apt/sources.list,
running apt-get update and then aptitude and deleting all Obsolete and
locally installed will guarantee your system does not use any
non-free software according to the DFSG.

Except the BIOS, all of included default firmwares of your hardware,
including the CPU microcode, unless you run on an libre platform with no
proprietary components (quite rare, even the apu2 e.g. has CPU
firmware).

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Newsgroups: rocksolid.shared.linux
Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
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 by: Marc SCHAEFER - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 08:10 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> https://linuxiac.com/debian-decided-to-include-non-free-firmware-in-the-installer/

"But, just as importantly, Debian users will receive security updates
and important firmware patches, just like any other installed software."

So, this means that deactivating non-free in /etc/apt/sources.list,
running apt-get update and then aptitude and deleting all Obsolete and
locally installed will guarantee your system does not use any
non-free software according to the DFSG.

Except the BIOS, all of included default firmwares of your hardware,
including the CPU microcode, unless you run on an libre platform with no
proprietary components (quite rare, even the apu2 e.g. has CPU
firmware).

To me, this debate looks a bit void.

--
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Re: Which distribution do you use?

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Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
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 by: Marco Moock - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 08:30 UTC

Am 07.12.2022 um 08:10:21 Uhr schrieb Marc SCHAEFER:

> So, this means that deactivating non-free in /etc/apt/sources.list,
> running apt-get update and then aptitude and deleting all Obsolete and
> locally installed will guarantee your system does not use any
> non-free software according to the DFSG.

True, this was the case everytime.
> Except the BIOS, all of included default firmwares of your hardware,
> including the CPU microcode, unless you run on an libre platform with
> no proprietary components (quite rare, even the apu2 e.g. has CPU
> firmware).
>
> To me, this debate looks a bit void.

It isn't because now non-free software may be installed automatically
during the install process. Additionally, what is about the license of
that software and the distribution of the ISO images?
If it included non-free stuff, the redistribution MAY be a problem (I
haven't checked).

Re: Which distribution do you use?

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Newsgroups: rocksolid.shared.linux
Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
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 by: Marc SCHAEFER - Wed, 7 Dec 2022 10:05 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> If it included non-free stuff, the redistribution MAY be a problem (I
> haven't checked).

Debian non-free is already more demanding in terme of "libre" than
some proprietary licenses (that allow to bundle the software, in some
cases, on CD-ROM, e.g.).

However, it's a good question. In my case, the machines leave already
preinstalled (sometimes with the Debian installer, and sometimes with
FAI).

In any case, I have almost no production of Debian 11 for the moment: I
am on Debian 10, and will switch to Debian 12 or 13 next year.

I always do 3 to 5 years cycles, skipping one or two releases.

For security purposes, I however have some redundant servers on
different versions, e.g. currently Debian 11 that I will upgrade to
Debian 12 or 13 some day.

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Re: Which distribution do you use?

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Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
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 by: Anonymous - Thu, 5 Jan 2023 19:18 UTC

There was a time when I used 21 OSes. On top of that some had virtualization and overlays. It does depend on the hardware, location and purpose. Debian 11 is the OS that I pass tips to others because of mass adoption.

Again if you have a BSD server is different than when you have some cheap router... For the people I help I do Kaisen if you want to be specific unless there is Kodi or some other streaming.

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Re: Which distribution do you use?

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Subject: Re: Which distribution do you use?
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 by: Anonymous - Sun, 7 May 2023 09:46 UTC

>IIRC yes:
>https://linuxiac.com/debian-decided-to-include-non-free-firmware-in-the-installer/
This is Stallmans own doing. He didn't recognize Debian as a FOSS distribution because they offered an alternative installer with non-free software included. So at that point, you might as well include non-free firmware in your installer as it's not recognized as FOSS anyway but with the added benefit that your users will now be able to install it without going through extra loops.

Kind of funny but I didn't even know about the installer with the non-free firmware until relatively recently and I've been using Linux for over 10 years now. I always used ethernet to install Debian on my laptops and then enabled the non-free repos to install the wireless drivers.

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 by: Anonymous - Tue, 22 Aug 2023 02:44 UTC

>Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?

Arch, obviously. Debian's installer is subpar at best, ubunut is infested with telemetry and attempts to be an enterprise distro that just makes it bad. I am a fan of Alma Linux, but I would not use that for desktop usage, quite honestly.

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 by: Anonymous - Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:56 UTC

Anonymous wrote:

>>Which distribution of GNU/Linux do you use?

> Arch, obviously. Debian's installer is subpar at best, ubunut is infested with telemetry and attempts to be an enterprise distro that just makes it bad. I am a fan of Alma Linux, but I would not use that for desktop usage, quite honestly.

I tried ubuntu on a laptop and it worked okay but start to feel not like a linux distro but some wanna be windoze. I removed it.

Arch is good but haven't used it in a while.

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