My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?

On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
>

The obvious question is what records of the £5k debt do you have?

On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
>

You would need to find out who the executors are as they are the ones
responsible for settling the estate, i.e. valuation, paying any IHT due,
paying outstanding bills, collecting overdue pension, tax refunds,
paying credit cards etc.

When someone dies their estate is frozen and then only after has probate
been granted can they then settle any unpaid bills, outstanding loans,
credit cards, debts etc.

You would also need to show evidence of the £5k so you could inform the
executor that teh deceased's brother has the document(s) in his possession.

S.

On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 21:24:55 UTC, SH wrote:
> On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
> > My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
> >
> You would need to find out who the executors are as they are the ones
> responsible for settling the estate, i.e. valuation, paying any IHT due,
> paying outstanding bills, collecting overdue pension, tax refunds,
> paying credit cards etc.
>
> When someone dies their estate is frozen and then only after has probate
> been granted can they then settle any unpaid bills, outstanding loans,
> credit cards, debts etc.
>
> You would also need to show evidence of the £5k so you could inform the
> executor that teh deceased's brother has the document(s) in his possession.
>
> S.

My problem is how do I find who the executors are?

On 05/11/2023 22:07, Peter Turtill wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 21:24:55 UTC, SH wrote:
>> On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
>>> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
>>>
>> You would need to find out who the executors are as they are the ones
>> responsible for settling the estate, i.e. valuation, paying any IHT due,
>> paying outstanding bills, collecting overdue pension, tax refunds,
>> paying credit cards etc.
>>
>> When someone dies their estate is frozen and then only after has probate
>> been granted can they then settle any unpaid bills, outstanding loans,
>> credit cards, debts etc.
>>
>> You would also need to show evidence of the £5k so you could inform the
>> executor that teh deceased's brother has the document(s) in his possession.
>>
>> S.
>
> My problem is how do I find who the executors are?

By availing of a process known as a "Standing Search". It was discussed
here in detail earlier in the year.

The links are here: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

It will cost £3

Regards

S.P.

On 05/11/2023 19:26, SH wrote:
> On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
>> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to
>> get back   for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father
>> had been living in a  nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his
>> brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and
>> has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was
>> details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much
>> his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even
>> know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now
>> returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not
>> interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?

It is quite possible that you will upset someone but at least there is a
house involved so that proper probate procedures will have to be
followed. You will have to make your claim for payment to the executor
when they advertise for any creditors to come forward.

> You would need to find out who the executors are as they are the ones
> responsible for settling the estate, i.e. valuation, paying any IHT due,
> paying outstanding bills, collecting overdue pension, tax refunds,
> paying credit cards etc.
>
> When someone dies their estate is frozen and then only after has probate
> been granted can they then settle any unpaid bills, outstanding loans,
> credit cards, debts etc.

Although that is true in theory (and in practice pretty much guaranteed
for someone who owns a house or stocks and shares) it is no longer true
for quite large cash only "small estates". Most banks now consider <£25k
per bank small enough to let go on presentation of a death certificate.

The legislation still thinks only <£5k total is "small".

> You would also need to show evidence of the £5k so you could inform the
> executor that teh deceased's brother has the document(s) in his possession.

It is also possible that the brother *is* the executor. The big question
for the OP is what signed records or proof does he hold of this loan
transaction?

--
Martin Brown

On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 00:48:00 UTC, Simon Parker wrote:
> On 05/11/2023 22:07, Peter Turtill wrote:
> > On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 21:24:55 UTC, SH wrote:
> >> On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
> >>> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
> >>>
> >> You would need to find out who the executors are as they are the ones
> >> responsible for settling the estate, i.e. valuation, paying any IHT due,
> >> paying outstanding bills, collecting overdue pension, tax refunds,
> >> paying credit cards etc.
> >>
> >> When someone dies their estate is frozen and then only after has probate
> >> been granted can they then settle any unpaid bills, outstanding loans,
> >> credit cards, debts etc.
> >>
> >> You would also need to show evidence of the £5k so you could inform the
> >> executor that teh deceased's brother has the document(s) in his possession.
> >>
> >> S.
> >
> > My problem is how do I find who the executors are?
> By availing of a process known as a "Standing Search". It was discussed
> here in detail earlier in the year.
>
> The links are here: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
>
> It will cost £3
>
> Regards
>
> S.P.

Many thanks. I read all that thead at the time but I could no longer find it. Thank you.

On 05/11/2023 18:58, GB wrote:
> On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
>> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to
>> get back   for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father
>> had been living in a  nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his
>> brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and
>> has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was
>> details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much
>> his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even
>> know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now
>> returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not
>> interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
>>
>
>
> The obvious question is what records of the £5k debt do you have?

Records are indeed valuable .
My parents owned their house(just a room and kitchen really) but in
order to get a 'better' home from the council they had to be homeless
the house was 'signed over' to an aunt on a Grace and Favour basis on
the understanding that the house was to revert to my brother and I on
their death . However this understanding was verbal. As my aunt (and
uncle) were now patients of a psychiatric hospital they could no longer
write wills . So died intestate the house was sold by the immediate
family (five sisters and two brothers) dad and one aunt having died.

So if we had had some record of the house reverting to us brother and
I would have gotten the proceeds of the house sale

On Tuesday, 7 November 2023 at 14:45:48 UTC, soup wrote:
> On 05/11/2023 18:58, GB wrote:
> > On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
> >> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to
> >> get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father
> >> had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his
> >> brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and
> >> has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was
> >> details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much
> >> his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even
> >> know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now
> >> returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not
> >> interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
> >>
> >
> >
> > The obvious question is what records of the £5k debt do you have?
> Records are indeed valuable .
> My parents owned their house(just a room and kitchen really) but in
> order to get a 'better' home from the council they had to be homeless
> the house was 'signed over' to an aunt on a Grace and Favour basis on
> the understanding that the house was to revert to my brother and I on
> their death . However this understanding was verbal. As my aunt (and
> uncle) were now patients of a psychiatric hospital they could no longer
> write wills . So died intestate the house was sold by the immediate
> family (five sisters and two brothers) dad and one aunt having died.
>
> So if we had had some record of the house reverting to us brother and
> I would have gotten the proceeds of the house sale

Many thanks to all who have posted. I will now consider my next step.

On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 00:48:00 UTC, Simon Parker wrote:
> On 05/11/2023 22:07, Peter Turtill wrote:
> > On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 21:24:55 UTC, SH wrote:
> >> On 05/11/2023 16:17, Peter Turtill wrote:
> >>> My grandchildren have learned their father has died. Both managed to get back for the funeral and were amazed to discover their father had been living in a nursing home, (he owns his own house) but his brother has a key and it appears he has been keeping an eye on him and has removed all his records for safe keeping. One of those records was details of £5K he owed me. I do not know if he had a will or how much his estate was once the nursing home has taken its fees. We don't even know the address of the nursing home and one of the children has now returned home to Australia. Apparently the grandchildren are not interested but how do I get my £5K without upsetting anybody?
> >>>
> >> You would need to find out who the executors are as they are the ones
> >> responsible for settling the estate, i.e. valuation, paying any IHT due,
> >> paying outstanding bills, collecting overdue pension, tax refunds,
> >> paying credit cards etc.
> >>
> >> When someone dies their estate is frozen and then only after has probate
> >> been granted can they then settle any unpaid bills, outstanding loans,
> >> credit cards, debts etc.
> >>
> >> You would also need to show evidence of the £5k so you could inform the
> >> executor that teh deceased's brother has the document(s) in his possession.
> >>
> >> S.
> >
> > My problem is how do I find who the executors are?
> By availing of a process known as a "Standing Search". It was discussed
> here in detail earlier in the year.
>
> The links are here: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
>
> It will cost £3
>
> Regards
>
> S.P.

I have tried that link many times over the last few days and it will not allow me to complete the form. Is there another method folks?

On 15/11/2023 11:50, Peter Turtill wrote:
> On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 00:48:00 UTC, Simon Parker wrote:
>> On 05/11/2023 22:07, Peter Turtill wrote:

>>> My problem is how do I find who the executors are?

>> By availing of a process known as a "Standing Search". It was discussed
>> here in detail earlier in the year.
>>
>> The links are here: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
>>
>> It will cost £3

> I have tried that link many times over the last few days and it will not allow me to complete the form. Is there another method folks?

I recommend trying a different browser. If you're using Safari, try
Chrome or vice-versa.

If that doesn't work, you could try e-mailing contactprobate@justice.gov.uk

If you are technically proficient, the court service Tech Support can be
contacted at MyHMCTSsupport@justice.gov.uk However, be advised that the
techies can be, shall we say, a little bit snarky and they have a
plethora of officials reasons at their fingertips ready to deploy at a
moment's notice if they decide they do not want to help you for whatever
reason.

Regards

S.P.

On 07/01/2024 15:30, Simon Parker wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 11:50, Peter Turtill wrote:
>> On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 00:48:00 UTC, Simon Parker wrote:
>>> On 05/11/2023 22:07, Peter Turtill wrote:
>
>>>> My problem is how do I find who the executors are?
>
>>> By availing of a process known as a "Standing Search". It was discussed
>>> here in detail earlier in the year.
>>>
>>> The links are here: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
>>>
>>> It will cost £3
>
>> I have tried that link many times over the last few days and it will
>> not allow me to complete the form. Is there another method folks?
>
> I recommend trying a different browser.  If you're using Safari, try
> Chrome or vice-versa.
>
> If that doesn't work, you could try e-mailing contactprobate@justice.gov.uk
>
> If you are technically proficient, the court service Tech Support can be
> contacted at MyHMCTSsupport@justice.gov.uk  However, be advised that the
> techies can be, shall we say, a little bit snarky and they have a
> plethora of officials reasons at their fingertips ready to deploy at a
> moment's notice if they decide they do not want to help you for whatever
> reason.
>
> Regards
>
> S.P.
>

Or if you are on Windows 11, try Sandbox and then running edge in that.

Sometimes installing plugins or changing scripting settings can break
websites so running Edge in a Sandbox can often work.