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rocksolid / Programming / Re: another federation discussion

SubjectAuthor
* another federation discussionAnonymous
+- Re: another federation discussionRetro Guy
`* moderationAnonymous
 `* Re: moderationRetro Guy
  `- Re: moderationRetro Guy

1
Subject: another federation discussion
From: pos...@anon.com (Anonymous)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Organization: def5
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 18:29 UTC
Attachments: unnamed (application/zip)
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!def5!.POSTED.bogusentry!not-for-mail
From: pos...@anon.com (Anonymous)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Subject: another federation discussion
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 11:29:47 -0700
Organization: def5
Message-ID: <code.258.1tifnv@anon.com>
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https://julay.world/meta/res/3386.html

lot of people think and discuss this. most of the threads i can find around (also on other boards) are still in the stage of discussing the potential of federation (and bashing nntpchan).
however, i found this document interesting, as a blueprint of an alternative way to sync (what i described earlier, using http only).
for the time when everything else is working. :-)


cheers

trw


Attachments: unnamed (application/zip)
Subject: Re: another federation discussion
From: retro...@retrobbs.rocksolidbbs.com (Retro Guy)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Organization: Rocksolid
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 09:46 UTC
Path: i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: retro...@retrobbs.rocksolidbbs.com (Retro Guy)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Subject: Re: another federation discussion
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 02:46:35 -0700
Organization: Rocksolid
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <d12dab9492e9471afbf47978e07db250$1@rslight.i2p>
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Anonymous wrote:

https://julay.world/meta/res/3386.html

lot of people think and discuss this. most of the threads i can find
around (also on other boards) are still in the stage of discussing the
potential of federation (and bashing nntpchan). however, i found this
document interesting, as a blueprint of an alternative way to sync (what i
described earlier, using http only). for the time when everything else is
working. :-)

Interesting. One thing that seems very important to node ops there is
moderation. Personally, I'm happy so far with our method: Moderate what you
wish on your own servers, and let other ops do as they wish. Eventually
users will prefer nodes that they "get along" with.

My use of nocem is really just to help me moderate (delete spam/cp/whatever)
on my own servers. Since I run several inn servers and two rslight servers,
it's much faster for me to just send a nocem message, then to go to each
server and delete a message, which is a pita. nocem makes it quick an easy.

I haven't looked at other forums discussing this, what are their main issues
with nntpchan?

Retro Guy



Subject: moderation
From: pos...@anon.com (Anonymous)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Organization: def5
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:30 UTC
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!def5!.POSTED.bogusentry!not-for-mail
From: pos...@anon.com (Anonymous)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Subject: moderation
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 03:30:40 -0700
Organization: def5
Message-ID: <code.264.49uqta@anon.com>
References: <code.258.1tifnv@anon.com>
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yeah the eternal topic of moderation....

I'm happy so far with our method: Moderate what you
wish on your own servers, and let other ops do as
they wish. Eventually users will prefer nodes that
they "get along" with.

yes, imo that is the only real option. everything else is either centralized or takes ages to discuss.
some people are ok with a central authority, but i prefer much to make my own decisions, thank you very much. :-)

My use of nocem is really just to help me moderate
(delete spam/cp/whatever) on my own servers. Since
I run several inn servers and two rslight servers,
it's much faster for me to just send a nocem
message, then to go to each server and delete a >message, which is a pita. nocem makes it quick an >easy.

yes, i thought about this way as well to have a "central" moderation for my nodes.

if i implement this, i guess i will send signed messages from def2 whenever i delete something, then let the server running inn2 or rslight nntp validate the signature and delete the message if successful. thought about using /test for this, btw. i guess with nocem it is a similar method ?

I haven't looked at other forums discussing this,
what are their main issues with nntpchan?

what i could find were complaints about it being written in python, being singlethreaded, and not being user friendly (i think i can confirm this last one from my experience a few years back, for the other two points, i don't really have an opinion).

and a lot of comments just complaining that it (or a similar approach) did not reach world domination by now: this is always the same: in 100k people discussing a subject like this, there is ususally only a couple that actually does something about it, the rest is just complaining or polishing their theories...for my part, i am glad to be among the doers (this time :-) ).

cheers

trw

--
Posted on def2


Subject: Re: moderation
From: Retro ...@rslight.i2p (Retro Guy)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Organization: Rocksolid Light
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 07:25 UTC
Path: i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Retro ...@rslight.i2p (Retro Guy)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Subject: Re: moderation
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 07:25 UTC
Organization: Rocksolid Light
Message-ID: <c0acd3601be76596ca143e871b8dab26$1@www.novabbs.com>
References: <code.258.1tifnv@anon.com> <code.264.49uqta@anon.com>
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logging-data="17422"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"
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X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on novabbs.com
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$fquHKtHFNekncLEmXcFnCeWt6F586nYG0tbizy8N3ld2oy4RGmcAy
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Anonymous wrote:

yeah the eternal topic of moderation....

I'm happy so far with our method: Moderate what you wish on your own servers, and let other ops do as
they wish. Eventually users will prefer nodes that
they "get along" with.

yes, imo that is the only real option. everything else is either centralized or takes ages to discuss.
some people are ok with a central authority, but i prefer much to make my own decisions, thank you very much. :-)

I agree. I don't want other groups of ppl deciding what I can and cannot have on my own servers. I also appreciate being notified about things I may have missed, but I still get to make the decision (for me, not for others).

My use of nocem is really just to help me moderate
(delete spam/cp/whatever) on my own servers. Since
I run several inn servers and two rslight servers, it's much faster for me to just send a nocem
message, then to go to each server and delete a >message, which is a pita. nocem makes it quick an >easy.

yes, i thought about this way as well to have a "central" moderation for my nodes.

if i implement this, i guess i will send signed messages from def2 whenever i delete something, then let the server running inn2 or rslight nntp validate the signature and delete the message if successful. thought about using /test for this, btw. i guess with nocem it is a similar method ?

nocem is quite nice. You post a properly formatted message into an agreed upon group, and other sites (usually simply the software itself), takes that messages, checks it's authenticity (pgp), then acts upon it. For example, my sites are configured to respond to specific groups for nocem messages and it found, check the signature and most importantly, check that I even want my site to react to that sender's nocem messages at all. Someone could post nocem messages all day long, and inn and rslight will just ignore them unless specifically configured to act on them.

I've written a very simple script that just reads a directory of spam/whatever, stuff I want to delete, and pulls the subject, date, newsgroup, sender and message-id from the posts, and formats that info into a nocem post. Then it signs the post with my key (once I type my password). This can be automated without a password but for now I prefer to do it this way, then it posts the message to rocksolid.nocem.

Once inn or rslight see that message (receive it), it takes action on it after verifying the signature. All I had to do is drop the posts somewhere then run the script once. Again, this could be more automated, but works fine for me.

BTW, rslight expects to find keys for user 'news' in /etc/rslight/.gnupg (putenv("GNUPGHOME=".$config_dir.".gnupg");)

I haven't looked at other forums discussing this,
what are their main issues with nntpchan?

what i could find were complaints about it being written in python, being singlethreaded, and not being user friendly (i think i can confirm this last one from my experience a few years back, for the other two points, i don't really have an opinion).

and a lot of comments just complaining that it (or a similar approach) did not reach world domination by now: this is always the same: in 100k people discussing a subject like this, there is ususally only a couple that actually does something about it, the rest is just complaining or polishing their theories...for my part, i am glad to be among the doers (this time :-) ).

The internet is full of complainers :)

Retro Guy


--
Posted on: Rocksolid Light
www.novabbs.com


Subject: Re: moderation
From: Retro ...@rslight.i2p (Retro Guy)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Organization: Rocksolid Light
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 08:29 UTC
Path: i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Retro ...@rslight.i2p (Retro Guy)
Newsgroups: rocksolid.programming
Subject: Re: moderation
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 08:29 UTC
Organization: Rocksolid Light
Message-ID: <e0c565de73087b4b93771b66c95df1c0$1@www.novabbs.com>
References: <code.258.1tifnv@anon.com> <code.264.49uqta@anon.com> <c0acd3601be76596ca143e871b8dab26$1@www.novabbs.com>
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Retro Guy wrote:

BTW, rslight expects to find keys for user 'news' in /etc/rslight/.gnupg (putenv("GNUPGHOME=".$config_dir.".gnupg");)

Oops, I mean as user 'www-data', or whatever user writes to your spool and is running the nocem.php script.

Retro Guy

--
Posted on: Rocksolid Light
www.novabbs.com


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